_Olivier Posted October 10, 2019 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a M9M and an M10, and produce only back and white photographs. I absolutely love the files the M9M, but much prefer shooting with the M10 (smaller body, better viewfinder, quieter shutter, etcetera) and end up shooting with the M10 most of the time as of late. I really really want an M10M which I assume will get me the best of both worlds: wonderful B&W DNGs paired with the more modern amenities of the M10, including (I hope) the ultra-quiet shutter of the M10P - which I absolutely want (I frequently shoot candid portraits on the streets, so a very quiet shutter is something I really look forward to). So, like many, I've been waiting patiently for the M10M. Now I hear of this 25% tariff on German cameras, effective October 18th. Assuming a new M10M would have been priced at $8000, this would put the M10M at $10,000 + tax if the tariff is in effect when the camera is released. That's a lot of money. So, my current dilemma: do I continue to wait for the elusive M10M, and risk paying through the nose for it, or do I pull the trigger on an M10P while I can still get one before the ridiculous tariff kicks in? Opinions welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 Hi _Olivier, Take a look here When will we get the M10M, really?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ianman Posted October 10, 2019 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2019 The tariff will be on the import price, not the shop price, so you likely get some increase but not 25% added to current retail prices. You could wait until the M10m is released - if ever - and take a trip to Europe to buy it. The money saved may pay for your trip In the meantime, you've got two incredible cameras, just enjoy them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 10, 2019 Share #3 Posted October 10, 2019 The tariff applies to lenses, not cameras. Nobody (besides insiders) knows when it’s coming. The last two versions each came 32 months after the main body (M9 and M240, respectively). September was 32 months since the M10 release, I think. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 10, 2019 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff S said: The tariff applies to lenses, not cameras. IIRC the document I saw did mention cameras too. Specifically from Germany. It's of course probable that the document I saw was not official though. Edit: nope, Jeff is correct. https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/Notice_of_Determination_and_Action_Pursuant_to_Section_301-Large_Civil_Aircraft_Dispute.pdf Edited October 10, 2019 by ianman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Olivier Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted October 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Jeff S said: The tariff applies to lenses, not cameras. Thanks for the info. I will continue to wait, as patiently as I can. 😁 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 31, 2019 Share #6 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Leica Rumors now says it’s coming next year, with 41MP. https://leicarumors.com/2019/10/30/confirmed-leica-m10-monochrom-will-be-released-in-2020-with-a-new-41mp-sensor.aspx/ Sounds more like an M11 Monochrom. Jeff Edited October 31, 2019 by Jeff S 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 31, 2019 Share #7 Posted October 31, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Making a second 24MP Monochrom makes no sense. Therefore a 41MP bayerless camera will be fantastic. It will have roughly the sharpness of a 82MP colour camera. Crazy. I guess that APO-Summicron-M 2/50 asph will be its natural partner. I am also glad that my theory about Leica using outer part of S3 sensor waffle was true. It was finally not use for SL2 but for incoming M10 Monochrom. Nice. 41MP 24x36 upscaled to 30x45 is 64MP by the way. Like the S3. It makes S3 custom made sensor economically bearable. I guess that rumoured M10 X using the same 41MP in Bayer flavour will also proved true. SL2 is one hell of a camera. However the whole system is way too heavy for me. So I decided not to buy it. I will wait for the new M10 Monochrom. 😊 Sharing the same process, it can explain why S3 and M10 Monochrom are so delayed. I hope that they change plan to give them a Maestro III instead of old Maestro II. Q2 is slowed down by this oldie. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichtUndDunkelheit Posted October 31, 2019 Share #8 Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, nicci78 said: Making a second 24MP Monochrom makes no sense. ... wait, WHAT ? I have no clue what you are trying to state. The newer sensor has better sensor performance, and better performance in general, and the new interface, etc. It makes totally sense to create a monochrom with that. Megapixel is the LEAST interesting parameter here. And personally I worry a lot for performance for these new Leica cameras. They had to shrink the pixel size quite brutally all of a sudden. Before it was 18 megapixels, then 24 megapixels, then again 24 Megapixels. And now suddenly a huge jump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted October 31, 2019 Share #9 Posted October 31, 2019 I'm not in the market for a new M Monochrom. I'm very satisfied with my mk1 version. It feels comfortable, like an old friend. It doesn't let me down. Even after seven years, I'm still excited to shoot with it because it can make such good pictures. The paint has completely worn off the engravings next to the buttons on the back, but I know from practice what each button does. Leica fitted a new corrosion-free sensor in 2016, so I'm hoping the camera will go on delivering for many years. That said, an M10M with a 41MP sensor sounds like something special. Especially with the form factor of the M10 body. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 31, 2019 Share #10 Posted October 31, 2019 I very much appreciate this decision by Leica. They could have so easily pumped out a M10M with 24MP and waited another 4 years to advance the Monochrom line. The M246 and 24MP M10M would have been very similar in performance less the body size which really is not a big deal. a little premature but well done Leica. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 31, 2019 Share #11 Posted October 31, 2019 4 hours ago, nicci78 said: Making a second 24MP Monochrom makes no sense. Therefore a 41MP bayerless camera will be fantastic. It will have roughly the sharpness of a 82MP colour camera. Crazy. I guess that APO-Summicron-M 2/50 asph will be its natural partner. I am also glad that my theory about Leica using outer part of S3 sensor waffle was true. It was finally not use for SL2 but for incoming M10 Monochrom. Nice. 41MP 24x36 upscaled to 30x45 is 64MP by the way. Like the S3. It makes S3 custom made sensor economically bearable. I guess that rumoured M10 X using the same 41MP in Bayer flavour will also proved true. SL2 is one hell of a camera. However the whole system is way too heavy for me. So I decided not to buy it. I will wait for the new M10 Monochrom. 😊 Sharing the same process, it can explain why S3 and M10 Monochrom are so delayed. I hope that they change plan to give them a Maestro III instead of old Maestro II. Q2 is slowed down by this oldie. I have almost bought the SL at least 10 times (I have the IBS version of G.A.S.) but the size continues to steer me away. We all have our own preferences. The M to me is perfect form factor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark II Posted October 31, 2019 Share #12 Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, colint544 said: That said, an M10M with a 41MP sensor sounds like something special. Especially with the form factor of the M10 body. If the M10M is essentially just an M10P with the new sensor but keeping compatibility with M10 accessories such as batteries, grips and (optimistically) the add-on EVF, it might be the camera that finally displaces my film kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 31, 2019 Share #13 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, nicci78 said: Making a second 24MP Monochrom makes no sense. Well, on that basis, one could argue that the M10 made no sense since we already had the 24MP M240. Yet I readily traded my M 240 for the M10 because of the better form factor, the much improved VF (larger opening, higher magnification and better eye relief), the more robust build and improved weather sealing, more modern sensor, etc. More MP isn’t always better IMO, so if the rumor is true, it will be interesting to test the new model against the already marvelous file quality of my MM1. I was looking forward to a Monochrom in a body like my M10, without a thought given to higher MP (other than the obvious resolution benefit of a Bayer-less sensor). We’ll see. Jeff Edited October 31, 2019 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 31, 2019 Share #14 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) If this story checks out, it will make me as happy as my local baseball team winning the World Series last night. (Sorry, still processing that...) A 41mp Monochrom with the form factor of the M10 is brilliant. If true, what smart thinking by Leica -- have the Monochrom follow as the next M is being developed, but don't make it an instant anachronism by using a de-Bayered version of the circa 2016 sensor. It's unusually fair to Leica's customers -- it rings of genuinely trying to lure people into the tandem M + Monochrom purchases. I know that doesn't work for a big audience, but for those who, since 2012, have used both Ms, it's really wonderful. In fact, it extends the life of the M10 Monochrom into the back half of the life of the M11. Happy day. Edited October 31, 2019 by johnbuckley 3 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted October 31, 2019 Share #15 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) ....oh! I wish now that i'd kept my 50 APO after all .... it will really shine on a 41mp Monochrom. Based on using the M246 a lot, I agree with nicci78's comment that resolution of a Monochrome is roughly 2x that of a Bayer sensor camera. It's not just fine detail, but acuity (and general lack of "digital" artefacts) is wonderful on the Monochrom's compared to their Bayer sensor brothers. I do quite a lot of 5x4 in black and white, and for when i don't need movements like front rise, a 41mp Monochrom could tick a lot of boxes .... Edited October 31, 2019 by Jon Warwick 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted October 31, 2019 Share #16 Posted October 31, 2019 I would love to see this. I have been on the wait list for a while and sold my 246 earlier this year in anticipation 41MPx would be great on a mono, given how well the sensors of the predecessors have shown to handle noise at high ISO .. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamosau Posted October 31, 2019 Share #17 Posted October 31, 2019 Been on the wait list for the last year for this camera. If this is all true... I'm looking forward to handing over my money! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 31, 2019 Share #18 Posted October 31, 2019 I am so glad that Leica are showing some love to Monochrom. I just missed my original Monochrom for almost 3 years. Stupidly trade in due to corroded sensor, for M-P typ 240, then sold as new to buy M10. Some people do not get it. But Monochrom is nothing like playing with colour filter and desaturation. I tried to love my Q, M10, CL and now Q2 converted in B&W. But the result does not hold a candle against original Monochrom. I loved to choose the perfect coloured filtre for the day : yellow, orange, yellow/green, light red or even dark red. You get perfect image without the need of post processing. The acuity is crazy as hell. 18 real MP ! When you are playing with virtual colour filtres on a Bayer sensor M10. You a are playing with only 6MP red or blue channels and 12MP green channel. Not that much really. Almost nothing left of information. I just find that the result is quite poor. Bonus : my wife green-lighted the M10 Monochrom for years. Saying that it was the only type of Leica worth buying. She also missed the results or the original one. So going from a perceived 36MP acuity to 82MP. It’s gonna be crazy. I am sure that Leica has found a way to make it usable with rangefinder. At each generation, the mechanism is becoming more and more accurate. Super high ISO will be super nice too. I really loved the grainy 10,000 ISO from the original. But I don’t mind a super clean 25,000 ISO and a grainy 200,000 one. I am sure that I can find a use to it, if focusing is still possible with such low light. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 31, 2019 Share #19 Posted October 31, 2019 10 hours ago, colint544 said: I'm not in the market for a new M Monochrom. I'm very satisfied with my mk1 version. It feels comfortable, like an old friend. It doesn't let me down. Even after seven years, I'm still excited to shoot with it because it can make such good pictures. The paint has completely worn off the engravings next to the buttons on the back, but I know from practice what each button does. Leica fitted a new corrosion-free sensor in 2016, so I'm hoping the camera will go on delivering for many years. That said, an M10M with a 41MP sensor sounds like something special. Especially with the form factor of the M10 body. Your photographs support your satisfaction, Colin. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 31, 2019 Share #20 Posted October 31, 2019 A quiet shutter a la M10P will further promote a film M-like b/w experience. But without the Tri-X grain. I’ll likely keep the MM1 even if this one appeals for different reasons, MP being lower on the priority list for me. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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