Leica M3 Black Paint

[Salomarte]

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Hello.

I was offered a Leica M3 black paint. The seller refused to give a price buy said he was open to offers. Since I'm not, by any means, an expert, I'm not sure about a good price for it. What would you think would be a fair price for it?

I have attached some pictures.

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[105012]

Whilst I can't suggest a price, it does seem to fall within a correct serial number range (1078 501 -- 1078 800, 1963). If it is the original black paint (it could have been repainted), then it has clearly not been used much...

[Herr Barnack]

Here's a 1963 M3 black paint that sold for €20,000:  https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/59651618_leica-m3-black-paint-1963-no-1078558

And here is some information on the black paint M3:  https://www.cameraquest.com/lm3blk.htm

Another page of information:  https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Leitz/M3-black-paint.html

And a couple of info pages from "The Ken:"     https://kenrockwell.com/leica/m3.htm#comp and   https://kenrockwell.com/leica/m3/buyers-guide.htm

As for what the camera is worth and what is a reasonable price to  pay for it?  A lot of that depends on the condition of the camera, and whether the black paint is original factory black paint or whether it has been repainted.  Oh, and whether it is a real Leica M3 or a counterfeit. 

As for condition, look out for mold or fungus in both the body and the lens.  Look hard at the condition of the film rails and the pressure plate on the film door in particular.  A lot of wear in these areas (significant streaking, missing paint or abrasion from thousands of rolls of film being run through the camera) will indicate heavy use as will strap lugs that are beat up with holes that are out of round. 

All I can say is that IMHO the guy who is refusing to quote you an asking price is being a jackass.  I hate it when people try to play that game - for the love of shit, if you want to sell it just quote me a damn price!!  Either he has no clue what the camera is worth or he wants to try to get €20,000 out of it would be my guess.

 

 

 

[jaapv]

I'm sorry, the Forum does not do valuations. So we won't give a price.

[jaapv]

However, it looks more like a repaint to me, albeit  well done. I am suspiscious of the colour of the engravings, the rear flap and ring around the viewfinder are too undamaged and the gloss appears non-Leica.The vulcanite is well-camouflaged on the photographs, but appears different between the flap and the body, indicating a restoration.

I would not offer more than a few hundred dollar over the price of a chrome near-mint M3 as it is a nice camera, provided that the mechancs are in good condition.

[luigi bertolotti]

Imho, any M3 black paint "very fine" must be considered with care and a bit of suspicion… expecially from a seller who asks for "an offer as you like" 

[ianman]

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15 hours ago, Salomarte said:

I was offered a Leica M3 black paint. The seller refused to give a price buy said he was open to offers. Since I'm not, by any means, an expert, I'm not sure about a good price for it. What would you think would be a fair price for it?

If this is true, which I suspect it isn't, my suggestion would be to stay well away from it.

[willeica]

14 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

 

Another page of information:  https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Leitz/M3-black-paint.html

 

 

 

I was going to post this but found out that the thread was locked. In this case the camera looks (photos are not great) like a repaint of some kind, but it might, indeed, have started life as a genuine black paint. If it were that (and there was 'good title' on the part of the seller) and the seller knew that, then this should be heading to auction rather a silly 'make me an offer' situation. I would not purchase this under any circumstances. I think that ianman's advice above is good.

William

[Salomarte]

Thanks to for your valuable advice and remarks. I will make an offer and see what happen.

 

Best to all.

[George Furst]

Keep us informed as I am curious, after all this discussion, what the final price will be. I have seen many black paint M3s in this condition and all have been repainted. Also the repainted examples are just like yours. They always pull a higher price when they are in the serial number range of the original black paint examples. I am sure this example you have shared I a repaint, and a nice one at that. Here in Korea it costs around $500 to have your M series chrome camera painted black as I did it a few years ago with my M4 camera.

[Herr Barnack]

I have to agree with the advice of others in this thread - this supposed black paint M3 is suspect.  Do not risk your money on it.