Surprise, excitement, intrepidation, utter disappointment, the Leica roller coaster

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Well the one I used in Germany on my trip was just deadly on track and reason i ordered one but some lenses may need to be shimmed also which i just did on my 50 lux and 135 apo and there dead on now. This is a tough lens to focus to begin with but shooting at F1 would push any system on focusing, were talking MM here.

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[ken_tanaka]

{snippet} This is a tough lens to focus to begin with but shooting at F1 would push any system on focusing, were talking MM here.

 

It surely would, Guy. Even contemporary autofocus systems would have a tough time with F/1.0. (Heck, they can have a tough time with some subjects at F/1.4 in subdued light.) Nailing a spot with rangefinder patch matches?...Luck may be involved.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I know the Canon has a tough time with the 85 1.2 either the old or the new one. This is just really hard stuff for a camera. Personnally what i would do is determine were the best place to focus at in the RF system than make mental notes when shooting. i did this with my 135 apo before i had it shimmed and mine was really off . i just front focused and was nailing everything. Maybe not at as drastic but folks may want to think like this a little and If shooting F1 than focus bracket

[Chuck Hatcher]

...Every photographer should try a f/1.0 lens at least once in your lifetime ...

 

I learned my lesson on Minolta manual focus equipment. Sure that seems like the slums compared to the Leica stratosphere, but at the time I was a real fan. Anyway they had, I think, four different 50mm normal lenses, probably 2.0, 1.7, 1.4, and 1.2. I started with the 1.7. Since each faster lens was more expensive than the next slower one, I naturally assumed each more expensive version was "better" than the less expensive ones. I saved my money for a long time to buy the 1.2, and what a major disappointment it turned out to be! I never could get a good picture with it without stopping down, and then no better than the lens I started with.

 

Compare that to the Leica Summicron, Summilux, and Noctilux. Each one is more expensive than the last. Is it better? That all depends on what "better" means. They are all truly great lenses. The Noctilux will do some things the others can't, but I would argue that for most normal purposes it is hardly "better". The poor Summicron can't do more than f/2. But at f/2 and slower it is a very difficult lens to find fault with, even ignoring the lower price and smaller size. I consider the Noctilux a special purpose lens, to be pretty much avoided unless its special talents are called for.

 

If course I am in no way suggesting it should not focus accurately out of the box, and I would be very upset to buy a new one that didn't.

[wlaidlaw]

The other big downside of the Nocti is its weight. I went to a piano recital in our lovely old 12th century Cathar/Albigensian church in the village tonight. I was going to take the M8 and would have needed the Nocti for its speed but I just did not want it sitting on my lap for the whole evening. In the end I could have taken it, as I left at the half-way interval, after hearing the pianist playing one of my favourites, the Chopin Fantasie-Polonaise Opus 61 with all the sensitivity and lightness of touch of a tractor mechanic but with more wrong notes.

 

Wilson

[Eoin]

Guy, it's all good and well focus bracketing at f:/1, even the most ardent RF user would possibly have difficulty attaining perfect focus every time. But lets not confuse the issue, the lens should at least remain or be calibrated to maintain focus from f:/2 to f:/5.6. The 75 has a narrower DOF at f:/2 than the nocti and that lens I can focus spot on time after time.

There seems to be plenty of samples and stories of people who've used a Nocti and found no issues with the M8. Granted of course for every one of these stories there seems to be another two who say focus drifts with the M8.

 

I wonder about many of the comments about this being a speciality lens, yes it has the magical light sucking ability, but it's also got a soul at the smaller apertures that the summicron does not have, there is still a glow or smoothness at f4 that seems lacking in other glass I've tried. That's what I bought it for, to use at the f:/2-f:/4

range and I always have the f:/1 should I ever want to go there, but that in it's self was not the primary reason, more so the reason was the fingerprint I've seen on so many images people have taken with this lens and not wide open.

 

I'd like to thank you all for your comments and commiserations, I guess I just could not internalise the fact my long awaited arrival was essentially unusable for it's intended purpose. I've written a polite email to leica, explaining my findings with samples asking them what they would like me to do from here. So the ball is in their court. I've put the lens away in it's box least it get marked and to stop me driving my self crazy playing with the focus ring to see what could have been .

 

I'm still dumb founded that this backfocus @ f:/2.8 is so large given the knowledge they must have regarding the M8 focus issues. I'm not inclined to question my own RF given the fact I never really had any issues with other lenses, they can't all be wrong and the nocti right.

 

Thanks again folks, at least I don't feel so alone now .

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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I know Eoin and I feel for you and when mine comes i may run into the same thing. Right now both M8's and all 9 lenses are perfect , this baby comes in being off than it will go right back and get readjusted or shimmed. Focus shift seems to be the nature of the beast. Honestly I think leica has run into two lenses there having a hard time with the other the 35 lux and there designs. If it is off just ever so slight than i would ignore it but anything further off than send it in for a new or recalibrate. i just think this is going to be a tough battle with the Nocti.

[carstenw]

The Noctilux, 35 Lux Asph, and 50 Lux Asph seem like the three lenses which are consistently problematic, with the first two being perhaps a little harder, since Leica sometimes says they can't improve them after they were sent back. The 50 Lux Asph has been fixed in every case that I know of, although it sometimes had to go back more than once.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

My 50 lux was just shimmed and is right on track now.

[wlaidlaw]

Eoin,

 

I have run the same tests at 1.5 meters on my Noctilux as you ran, with the proviso that as I wear varifocals, I would guess my focusing will not be as accurate as yours, even with a 1.25X magnifier. It shows that my Nocti is front focusing if anything at f1.0 but that may well be down to my accuracy. I would guess it is about as good as it will get. The other images are at f2.8 and f5.6 and show that the aperture shift you are getting is a bit more than mine but not a huge amount. The difference is that my POF just about stays within the DOF. One surprise is that f2.8 is overall sharper than f5.6. This may be a function of the close 1.5 meters focus distance on this rather eccentric lens. I don't recall seeing this on my tests at 5 meters.

 

I think what this demonstrates is that if Leica shim your lens to front focus a fraction wide open, it is all livable with. You will also find that it works much better at 5m, where on previous tests, my focus was spot on and the aperture shift seemed much less noticeable, with the POF easily staying within the DOF. Maybe you should try some tests with your lens at 5 meters.

 

Hope some of this helps.

 

Wilson

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[Eoin]

I received an email this morning asking for both the Nocti and body to be returned to the factory for testing. I think this may also be an opportune time to send the 28 Cron for 6bit coding along with the 75, then they can ensure my 3 lenses are in tune at the same time after they make the adjustments.

 

Obviously the results shown in the photos are not normal so we'll see what a "tuned body & Nocti" will produce when I get it back.

 

Thanks again everyone!

[wlaidlaw]

I just looked at my images above and have decided that the reason the f2.8 looks sharper than f5.6 is camera shake. I did have the M8 on my heavyweight Manfrotto 190 but I was lazy and did not use the shutter delay. My mini-Softie is Loctited into the shutter button with low strength Loctite, of which I don't have any with me in France at the moment (only got high strength and I am NOT going to use that), so I wasn't going to take the Softie out to use a remote.

 

Wilson