SL vs S1 vs S1R - DxOMark results

[Bob Andersson]

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Which is why you can't directly compare numbers from Photons to Photos and DxOMark although I think it is fair to compare the shapes of the graphs. One of the reasons I lean more towards the DxOMark data is that, so far as I know, the testing is all done in house which gives me a little more confidence when trying to compare results of the cameras they've tested. But all such tests are, obviously, just a precursor to the most important test of all... 🙂

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb BernardC:

So we can put you down for "...different sensor"?

+1

vor 2 Stunden schrieb BernardC:

...,but I wouldn't be surprised if the next SL had a few innovations.

+1

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, BernardC said:

So we can put you down for "same body and features as the SL, different sensor"? That's what they did with the S3, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next SL had a few innovations.

One thing I find intriguing is that the battery grip price has been slashed. That tells me that it will not be compatible with the new camera, or that the next battery grip will offer additional features. I would love a grip that makes the SL into a self-contained cinema camera: 15mm rod connections (for holding a matte box and follow-focus), XLR audio connectors, D-Tap battery cable connector, USB-C to record RAW video straight to an SSD.

I did not say or mean same body although that could be possible for SL2. 

It can never just be a sensor change as the processing power needs to be beefed up as well plus other improvements in AF capability & Higher resolution EVF to keep up with the pack. Unfortunately, buyers can be dum enough just to think it is just sensor change.

Good things should not change. One thing I really like is the minimalist design of four rear buttons and the current SL menu layout. I do not think SL2 will become a typical Japanese more buttons the merrier design. I am certain not all users need all the buttons in the same location, allowing customise buttons is just brilliant idea in my books.

As the exterior looks of SL is perfect to me. I’m certain not all will agree with me. Take out the logo and I can differentiate the SL against others.

[Jeff S]

14 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Maybe not such a great price differential if the same SL 601 body and controls used ? Leica are fond of reusing the same chassis for their Mk II models. 

dunk 

Dr. Kaufmann already stated in his LuLa video interview last year with Kevin Raber that the SL2 would have a “more elegant” design, not “cut like an axe” as the SL.

I’ll be delighted if they take a page from the fine looking and ergonomically superb Hasselblad X1D.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

How about a mini S?

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, Chaemono said:

How about a mini S?

One of the Leica execs mentioned at the time the SL was released that there were debates internally regarding design, and that using the S as a basis was a definite  consideration.

I have some suspicions that the S3 might be the end of the line for the S, at least in its current DSLR configuration. In any case, I’m sure Leica has a plan for the S and SL systems, in more ways than just form factor, including lens lines. The 4 button interface, battery compartment, etc are already shared.  

Jeff

Edited May 9, 2019 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

One of the Leica execs mentioned at the time the SL was released that there were debates internally regarding design, and that using the S as a basis was a definite  consideration.

+1. It has rounded edges AND is wide enough to house IBIS. 😁

[colonel]

The test is fake. It doesn’t add in how good the SL feels in your hand. That’s got to be worth 1000 extra points

[ron777]

 But that depends upon the size of one’s hands.  To wit, I did not find the SL comfortable to hold . For my hands, the slightly beefier grip of the S1/R makes a big, positive difference in terms of comfort and grip ability.

Edited May 14, 2019 by ron777

[alexzz]

From Photons to Photos, Leica SL has less noise than S1R : 

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Edited February 5, 2020 by alexzz

[thighslapper]

59 minutes ago, alexzz said:

From Photons to Photos, Leica SL has less noise than S1R : 

..... and your point is ???

you cannot really compare 24mpx with 47mpx ...... see the notes below the graphs ....

Notes:

These raw values are not appropriate for comparing camera models because they are not adjusted for gain or area.
The shape of the curve can tell you something about the amplifier circuitry of the camera.
Jagged curves, like the Nikon D3S show evidence of a separate amplifier for intermediate ISO.
Straight curves, like the Nikon D7000, show evidence of being dominated by photosite read noise.
Curved curves, like the Nikon D90, show evidence of being dominated by ADC read noise.
Curves with a sharp drop in the analog range, like the Sony ILCE-A7, show evidence of the use of dual conversion gain.
Quite a few cameras stop analog gain before reaching the "Hi" ISO values.
"Hi" ISO values can behave strangely once signal processing such as noise reduction kicks in.

[alexzz]

The results on DPreview seem to confirm the results of Photons to Photos :

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Edited February 22, 2020 by alexzz

[thighslapper]

On 2/22/2020 at 11:56 AM, alexzz said:

The results on DPreview seem to confirm the results of Photons to Photos :

1. You need to downres the 47mpx files to 24mpx to get a true comparison when it comes to the results when output to a viewing medium/device

2. Who on earth actually uses iso 25000 regularly anyway ? 

Edited February 23, 2020 by thighslapper

[Donzo98]

On 2/22/2020 at 6:56 AM, alexzz said:

The results on DPreview seem to confirm the results of Photons to Photos :

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Compare SL to S1... S1 blows away the SL at HIGH ISO.

[BernardC]

4 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

Compare SL to S1... S1 blows away the SL at HIGH ISO.

Did they switch the images? The ones on the right (SL) look much better, although neither one looks good.

There are much better choices available if you shoot at ISO 25,000. Canon makes a video camera that will give you decent images at 100,000.

[Donzo98]

5 hours ago, BernardC said:

Did they switch the images? The ones on the right (SL) look much better, although neither one looks good.

There are much better choices available if you shoot at ISO 25,000. Canon makes a video camera that will give you decent images at 100,000.

The above comparison is the S1R vs SL... not the S1.

[BernardC]

15 hours ago, Donzo98 said:

The above comparison is the S1R vs SL... not the S1.

Ah, I get it now. The words did not match the text, thus my confusion.

The S1's sensor is 4 years newer than the SL's, so you expect a good deal of improvement. That being said, the improvement is mostly beyond ISO 3200, so it is immaterial in most circumstances.

Those who spend much of their shooting time in near-darkness should consider upgrading. Or looking at dedicated low-light cameras from other manufacturers.

[caissa]

If you really want to compare the cameras, then take your own photos, under the circumstances you are usually going to use the camera. If you plan to use it mostly in the dark (ISO 12000 and more) then simply forget a 4 year old camera. And buy the latest sensor technology (There are cameras with ISO of 500000 or even more). But under normal circumstances the SL is still very nice.
(There is a Canon video camera with ISO 4.5 million, ME20F-SH. But it is not clear if this is a practical camera for daily use.)
The Sony a7S II goes to ISO 400K, but everybody says the 200K and 400K ISOs are to be avoided. The Nikon D5 extends to ISO 3.2 Million. (at 20 Mp, so probably the best choice on paper). https://www.ephotozine.com/article/top-21-best-low-light-photography-cameras-2020-31813

The DxO numbers are just that, numbers. And you need to be a specialist to interpret them and understand which are important and which are almost meaningless. So usually forget DxO and their numbers. Mainly a marketing gimmick to sell their software products.

Edited February 25, 2020 by caissa