S1r - Issues in Manual Exposure Mode

[BeuBu]

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First of all I should say that I'm quite happy with the S1r after working with it for some days. I'm using by now only manual lenses: Leica-M with Leica SL/M-Adapter and Canon TSE 24 with the Novoflex adapter. For my landscape work all my Leica M lenses are working well (very comparable to M240), but I'm using exclusively f8 to max f16.
Usually I'm working in M-Mode and I registered "Constant Preview" to the Fn 2 button (the preview toggle button in default setting). I'm used to work with constant prreview from my M240 workflow.

My biggest issue is, that during Constant Preview the update of the LCD and the viewfinder is depending on the shutter speed setting. That is usually not perceived during daytime, when shutter speed is below, let's say, 1/60 sec. But it is really annoying when SS is decreasing. E.g. with a SS of 1sec. the LCD is updated (showing a new image) every 1sec., with a SS of 10sec. it is updated every 10sec., aso. That also means that movements are blurred or even not visible, depending on SS setting.
This behaviour is a real blocker for my workflow in the moment and I wonder if this is intended? Can anybody confirm this behaviour and, maybe has an explanation? 
Is it a bug or a feature?

My second level issues are:

• I cannot switch to EFC shutter type with manual lenses attached.
• With Leica M lenses (and the Leica SL/M-adapter) I get the correct focal length in the EXIF data, but after power on with the image stabilization enabled, I get the screen which is asking for the focal length.
• When I'm using the enlarged screen to check focus (which really works great), I cannot change the aperture of the Canon TSE24 with the front dial, because front- and rear dials are "hard registered" to enlarge/reduce the screen. The rear dial, which is also doing this in bigger steps, would be suffcient from my point of view.

Thanks and regards,
Uwe

[thighslapper]

The Constant preview issue with refresh rates has also limited its use for me. I initially thought it was due to low light levels, but the refresh rate does seem entirely related to the shutter speed. 

I did point this out to Panasonic reps at the Photography Show here in March when the camera was released but had no coherent explanation. 

I hope it's a firmware bug.

The M lens/adapter issue is covered elsewhere in the forum here and is clearly a firmware glitch which hopefully will get sorted. 

I've also mentioned here that you can't choose EFC shutter for manual lenses to avoid shutter shock when using non AF or stabilised lenses on a tripod .... when this is really the ONLY situation when you actually need it. 

I've not noticed the screen enlargement issue as I presumably don't change aperture whilst checking focus.

These issues need passing back to Panasonic, although unlike Leica, I have no idea who to contact. 

[ron777]

Following an extensive online search, the following is the only reference I could find relating to Panasonic S support, and the link appears to be rather generic in nature but it might be worth a try:

https://na.panasonic.com/us/news/panasonic-develops-two-models-its-first-full-frame-mirrorless-camera

[su25]

This explains how constant preview works... not sure whether there are any specific settings which can affect the refresh rate while in constant preview mode.
 

[Stuart Richardson]

Yes, I have noticed this a bit as well. As a night shooter, it is annoying. It was not anything I ever noticed with Sony or Leica in the past. Meanwhile, I find turning constant preview off to be equally disturbing...I am not sure why, because I guess it should be much closer to using an SLR or RF, but somehow it feels wrong not to use constant preview...

 

[thighslapper]

56 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Yes, I have noticed this a bit as well. As a night shooter, it is annoying. It was not anything I ever noticed with Sony or Leica in the past. Meanwhile, I find turning constant preview off to be equally disturbing...I am not sure why, because I guess it should be much closer to using an SLR or RF, but somehow it feels wrong not to use constant preview...

 

I agree ...... in manual mode that's how I use the SL all the time. 

I don't want constant preview for shutter speed ...... just for exposure ..... and possibly for DOF ...... so with such a comprehensive set of controls I would have thought Panasonic could have separated the options. OK, for long exposure landscape photography you are going to be on a tripod anyway, but it is a bit of a nuisance.

Edited May 5, 2019 by thighslapper

[Jeff S]

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15 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

I agree ...... in manual mode that's how I use the SL all the time. 

I don't want constant preview for shutter speed ...... just for exposure ..... and possibly for DOF ...... so with such a comprehensive set of controls I would have thought Panasonic could have separated the options. OK, for long exposure landscape photography you are going to be on a tripod anyway, but it is a bit of a nuisance.

I’ve lost track of earlier discussions of how  the live histogram is activated and displayed in the SL EVF.  How would you compare the current SL implementation with that in the Lumix?

Jeff

[ron777]

IMO it’s better in Sr1. It remains active with the level, grid and peaking, etc., no need to change screens as in the SL. And it has been accurate for my use.

[BeuBu]

17 hours ago, thighslapper said:

The Constant preview issue with refresh rates has also limited its use for me. I initially thought it was due to low light levels, but the refresh rate does seem entirely related to the shutter speed. 

I did point this out to Panasonic reps at the Photography Show here in March when the camera was released but had no coherent explanation. 

I hope it's a firmware bug.

The M lens/adapter issue is covered elsewhere in the forum here and is clearly a firmware glitch which hopefully will get sorted. 

I've also mentioned here that you can't choose EFC shutter for manual lenses to avoid shutter shock when using non AF or stabilised lenses on a tripod .... when this is really the ONLY situation when you actually need it. 

I've not noticed the screen enlargement issue as I presumably don't change aperture whilst checking focus.

These issues need passing back to Panasonic, although unlike Leica, I have no idea who to contact. 

Thanks, thighslapper.

My understanding of EFC is that it should suppress shutter shock, because one is starting exposure electronically? For this I wonder, why I cannot use it with manual lenses. 

The idea of changing aperture with  enlarged screen is, to fine tune sharpness with the aperture (DoF vs. diffraction). 

Thanks all for your helpful answers,

Uwe

[su25]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:44 PM, thighslapper said:

The Constant preview issue with refresh rates has also limited its use for me. I initially thought it was due to low light levels, but the refresh rate does seem entirely related to the shutter speed. 

I did point this out to Panasonic reps at the Photography Show here in March when the camera was released but had no coherent explanation. 

I hope it's a firmware bug.

The M lens/adapter issue is covered elsewhere in the forum here and is clearly a firmware glitch which hopefully will get sorted. 

I've also mentioned here that you can't choose EFC shutter for manual lenses to avoid shutter shock when using non AF or stabilised lenses on a tripod .... when this is really the ONLY situation when you actually need it. 

I've not noticed the screen enlargement issue as I presumably don't change aperture whilst checking focus.

These issues need passing back to Panasonic, although unlike Leica, I have no idea who to contact. 

Now I know. When I zoom in/out, the display looks like a long exposure image shot while zooming in/out during the exposure. There is a lag no doubt. This happened with my Lumix S Pro 70-200mm lens. My shutter speed was set to 1s. 

[BeuBu]

On 5/13/2019 at 4:20 AM, su25 said:

Now I know. When I zoom in/out, the display looks like a long exposure image shot while zooming in/out during the exposure. There is a lag no doubt. This happened with my Lumix S Pro 70-200mm lens. My shutter speed was set to 1s. 

Yes, I think that is the same issue, if you have been in Constant Preview mode.

I hope, Panasonic can fix it ASAP.

Edited May 14, 2019 by BeuBu

[su25]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:44 PM, thighslapper said:

The Constant preview issue with refresh rates has also limited its use for me. I initially thought it was due to low light levels, but the refresh rate does seem entirely related to the shutter speed. 

I did point this out to Panasonic reps at the Photography Show here in March when the camera was released but had no coherent explanation. 

I hope it's a firmware bug.

The M lens/adapter issue is covered elsewhere in the forum here and is clearly a firmware glitch which hopefully will get sorted. 

I've also mentioned here that you can't choose EFC shutter for manual lenses to avoid shutter shock when using non AF or stabilised lenses on a tripod .... when this is really the ONLY situation when you actually need it. 

I've not noticed the screen enlargement issue as I presumably don't change aperture whilst checking focus.

These issues need passing back to Panasonic, although unlike Leica, I have no idea who to contact. 

I do hope this issue is fixed asap. Primary reason for me to buy S1R was LENR off option. But the display lag is very irritating. I wonder whether switching off constant preview will get rid of the problem. Let me try. 
Also, I found the adapted M lenses (with Leica M-SL adapter) did not produce as sharp images on S1R as with SL. Let me check this forum whether others had similar experience.  

[helged]

3 hours ago, su25 said:

I do hope this issue is fixed asap. Primary reason for me to buy S1R was LENR off option. But the display lag is very irritating. I wonder whether switching off constant preview will get rid of the problem. Let me try. 
Also, I found the adapted M lenses (with Leica M-SL adapter) did not produce as sharp images on S1R as with SL. Let me check this forum whether others had similar experience.  

The sluggish refresh rate with constant preview is only a problem at low shutter speeds. For ordinary, dailight photography, constant preview works fine. 

[su25]

9 hours ago, helged said:

The sluggish refresh rate with constant preview is only a problem at low shutter speeds. For ordinary, dailight photography, constant preview works fine. 

Yes. Thankfully it works fine when I turn off constant preview... which is a great relief, as I don't need constant preview for long exposure and astro photography. 

[Ian02840]

How does everyone find the s1r for astral photography?  I've heard it has green hue in spots , hot pixels in post, banding, and very noisy images overall which crush the effect of the stars

[jaapv]

I give you one guess at the reason that Leica uses LENR...  

[tom.w.bn]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

I give you one guess at the reason that Leica uses LENR...  

They have a cold fusion reactor in the camera? Amazing....     🙂

[tom.w.bn]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Ian02840:

How does everyone find the s1r for astral photography?  I've heard it has green hue in spots , hot pixels in post, banding, and very noisy images overall which crush the effect of the stars

They probably switched long exposure noise reduction off. You save waiting time betwen shots but especially for high iso long exposure, it looks way better with noise reduction on.

[BeuBu]

12 hours ago, Ian02840 said:

How does everyone find the s1r for astral photography?  I've heard it has green hue in spots , hot pixels in post, banding, and very noisy images overall which crush the effect of the stars

Hi,

I've just started this summer to try some milky way pictures with the S1r. The attached one has been done with the Summicron 75mm @ f2 adapted to the S1r, 4 x 30sec. with a simple autotracker (noise reduction on), stacked in Sequator and further developed in ACR. I have no experience with other cameras concerning astro photography and will keep going with the S1r as long as the results are satisfying for me.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[tom.w.bn]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb BeuBu:

Hi,

I've just started this summer to try some milky way pictures with the S1r. The attached one has been done with the Summicron 75mm @ f2 adapted to the S1r, 4 x 30sec. with a simple autotracker (noise reduction on), stacked in Sequator and further developed in ACR. I have no experience with other cameras concerning astro photography and will keep going with the S1r as long as the results are satisfying for me.

Which ISO value did you use?

Edited October 18, 2020 by tom.w.bn