R 50 mm f/1.4 . Version 1 or 2?

[wizard]

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb Stuart Richardson:

... whereas the pre-asph summilux is very soft indeed.

I was actually surprised at how sharp the first shot in #46 above is, which was taken with the pre-asph Summilux-M 50mm. I would not call that very soft. And my copy of the Summilux-R 50mm E55 lens is not very soft either. That said, I am sure the E60 lens is a better lens (it should be, considering its much more modern optical layout).

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[hansvons]

Shot with Sl2-S and Summilux R E55 @ f1,4; there's no sharpening or noise reduction applied.

There are better f1,5 50mm lenses out there in terms of sharpness or smooth bokeh. But this lens is unique in terms of vintage virtues/quirks such as a swirly bokeh, cat eyes, and a slight glow but retaining a useable sharpness despite all these "flaws", which the competitors at that time could not offer at an open aperture. It flares super nicely, by the way. This is more of a filmmaker's lens than a stills photography prime, which explains its high demand. Pristine examples of the V1 get rarer by the day.

The E60 version is a different beast. It's a more modern lens that doesn't swirl anymore, shows rounded bokeh balls, flares not as easily and is sharper. I'd say it's rather the manual sibling to the 50mm Summilux SL as being the better twin to the V1 Summilux R.

 

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Edited November 18, 2022 by hansvons

[hansvons]

16 hours ago, cpclee said:

I'm not sure whether this helps the conversation, but the first image is taken with the pre-Aspheric Summilux M on a M240, the remaining images were all taken with the E60 v.2 and the Leica DMR 

None of these images was taken at f 1,4, BTW. But when assessing an f1,4 lens, the full aperture is what these lenses are about. At f2,8, they are similar to the Summicrons, lose their specific characteristics and are pretty sharp. 

[farnz]

26 minutes ago, hansvons said:

None of these images was taken at f 1,4, BTW. But when assessing an f1,4 lens, the full aperture is what these lenses are about. At f2,8, they are similar to the Summicrons, lose their specific characteristics and are pretty sharp. 

@robert_parker

@hansvons (Please note, your post has an incorrect attribution to cpclee when it was robert_parker who posted the pictures so I've tagged him.) 

I'm surprised that you've said "None of these images was taken at f/1.4" because I was standing beside robert_parker when he took some of them and he was shooting wide open at the time.  I can't swear to them all being shot wide open but certainly the first picture (pre-asph 50/1.4) was wide open and the rest, apart from the last picture (of the London Marathon), look to me to be wide open with the 50/1.4 Summilux-R v2.  But robert_parker should be able to confirm.

Pete.

[hansvons]

@farnz

Apologies for the wrong quote. 

My opinion that none of those above images was shot at full aperture is based on my experience of what full aperture out-of-focus areas look like in terms of depth of field. But, of course, I can be significantly misled if the image is heavily cropped, essentially showing the depth of field of a medium close-up in a close-up picture. Below, for reference, is a close-up image I've shot with the V1 Summilux R at f 1,4 FF without cropping.

 

 

 

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[robert_parker]

3 hours ago, farnz said:

@robert_parker

@hansvons (Please note, your post has an incorrect attribution to cpclee when it was robert_parker who posted the pictures so I've tagged him.) 

I'm surprised that you've said "None of these images was taken at f/1.4" because I was standing beside robert_parker when he took some of them and he was shooting wide open at the time.  I can't swear to them all being shot wide open but certainly the first picture (pre-asph 50/1.4) was wide open and the rest, apart from the last picture (of the London Marathon), look to me to be wide open with the 50/1.4 Summilux-R v2.  But robert_parker should be able to confirm.

Pete.

Unfortunately I have a problem with my image library at the moment, so I can't confirm Exif, however generally I shoot Summilux or wider lenses wide open when possible.

I can't be sure that all of the shots posted were wide open but hopefully they might give an idea of the character of the two lenses nevertheless.

It does need to be remembered that the v1 and v2 Summiluxes for R mount are very different in both their configuration and character.

Edited November 18, 2022 by robert_parker

[hansvons]

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2 hours ago, cbass said:

The poorer corner performance on the E55 seems to be largely due to curvature. When photographing 3D objects this can result in interesting results and the corners not always as poor as expected.

We see a bent focus plane on other R lenses, especially the 35mm Summicron R, which is an outstanding lens (and highly priced in the market). For 35mm, it renders pretty flat, which is flattering for faces. Still, the curvature creates an intriguing dimensionality in the right environment and distance (typically a medium shot, with stuff around and behind the subject). The same can be said about the V1 E55 50mm, translated to the more narrow field of view, which makes it much less pronounced. 

In filmmaking, one deals primarily with portraits in one way or another, people doing things, talking etc. Even in long shots (landscapes, cityscapes), a subject often catches the interest. Hence, typical lens flaws of vintage lenses, like soft corners don't play an important role. 

In stills land, the rules are pretty different. Neither the 35mm Summicron R nor the 50mm R Summiluxes are great for landscapes in today's aspirations. But if I were a landscape photographer and were limited to R glass, the newer E60 version would be preferable. For portraits, I'd argue, not so much because the V1 "flaws" like swirl, flaring, and soap-bubbly cat eye bokeh look lovely. That, of course, is up to personal taste. 

 

[wlaidlaw]

When we used to have that lovely independent German lens testing site, whose name now escapes me, I seem to remember the highest scoring 50mm f1.4 lens was the Zeiss CX/Y mount Planar. I suspect they may have had a slight prejudice against Leica, as their lenses never seemed to score very well other than the 50/1.4 ASPH-M. 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

3 hours ago, cbass said:

Are you talking about photodo, which had the weighted MTF rating?

That is the one. I must have deleted it from my bookmarks as I had had a search there with no luck. I see to my surprise it is still going. It shut down for a while. 

Wilson

[OR120]

Time Stands Still - SL2-S w/50 Lux E60 - please click for a better vew

 

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Edited November 28, 2022 by OR120
sp

[OR120]

Fog Sets In - SL2-S w/50 M Safari - please click for better view - sorry, wrong 50mm

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by OR120