Getting a Film vs Digital M as a long-term companion

[Och]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm in my late 30s and shoot primarily digital with a Q. Recently I've gotten back (I say back because I used film cameras as a child and teenager) into film with a Canon A-E1P and have been enjoying it immensely. To the point where I was thinking I'd love to just have at least 1 film camera available to me for the rest of my life so I can shoot film when the urge hits. And when I'm thinking something that I'd want to last 40 years or so, my thought went to a Leica film camera. I'm primarily drawn to the M6 due to cost but also that it's relatively "modern" and I like that when I consider something I hope to keep for another 40 years. That and just 1 35mm lens, and I'd have all I need to shoot happily.

But then otoh, I can't imagine going primarily to film. For volume and workflow (I don't have intentions of developing my own film) I think digital is what works and will continue to work for me. So then I'm thinking for the outlay of a film M, why not just go digital? The lens outlay would be the same digital or film.  Digital cameras do theoretically have a shorter lifespan, but I'm seeing people using M8s that still work fine and those are approaching 15 years. Not crazy to think there will be plenty of 20 year old M8s that will be working just fine.  So I'm thinking even if I go digital M, the lens will be a lifetime purchase, and then if I'm lucky enough to have a body that lasts 20 years, I might only need to purchase 2 bodies my entire life.  So in that sense even digital doesn't seem too transient. If I do go digital the initial cost outlay will probably be more since I'd want a newer body if I want it to last 20 years, but that should be okay. And with a digital body I'll get a lot of the film shooting experience that seems kind of unique to M bodies. And I could shoot film with cheap Canon/Nikon bodies instead.

Anyways, these are my two conflicting chain of thoughts.  Would love to hear what the community would have to say...

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[fatihayoglu]

That's why I have M10 and MP, one 35mm, one 50mm attached to each. (I have other lenses but not carrying around always). I might say I am pretty happy and if I ever need to have only one camera I will keep my MP with 35 cron IV on it and I think I can live with that.

[Jeff S]

Cameras come and go... make the pictures last... print them.  I gave up film when I lost the desire for building a fifth darkroom.  With digital, it’s the batteries, the editing software and storage that can go extinct.  Also beware of GAS... digital camera iterations appear much faster than film bodies did.... and these forums are killers for those susceptible.  

Jeff

Edited March 26, 2019 by Jeff S

[a.noctilux]

Och,

some ideas from Leica long time user film and digital :

- one Leica for life is a dream i'm sure not becoming reality soon

- one Leica for long term use, yes possible if maintained properly once a couple of years

- take one Leica to use and when it needs repair hoping repair people can do the job in futur

- some Leica from the 1930's work like a charm (I use some, I'm not the only one 😉 ) when maintained correctly

[evikne]

If you want the best out of both worlds, you can buy a digital M and put on a 35mm Summicron pre-ASPH v.4 as mentioned above. A such lens will give you pictures without the digital harshness, more film like, straight from the camera. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by evikne

[a.noctilux]

Out of topic, this is not M camera but one of my oldest but working Leica as example 😇.

This 'Leica I' transformed to 'Leica II' was build in 1925-26,

then the Leitz Factory rebuilt some years later to specifications of Leica II with rangefinder the Leica I lacks.

Now this Leica still takes nice photos, even accept modern lens as usual

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

As I get older and my lens/cameras get older too (some out of order) and like many, I wanted a long time M, miracle Leica offered in late 2014 the Leica M-A

so I purchased one without hesitation...

and now one in each color 'for life' 👻 this time

 

[Mute-on]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If you really want a film Leica M, then buy a film Leica M. I did, and I’ve bought three. 

However, if your criteria is a 20 year companion, it is highly unlikely that a digital Leica M will last that long.

As Jeff and others have identified, batteries, software support, storage, not to mention sensor degradation, shutter failure, screen failure, and lack of spares, will abbreviate useful life to around 10 yrs or so. If you want a 10 year Leica, but all means stick to digital. 

For reference, my youngest Leica M (MP) is about 14 years old. My oldest (M2) is about 55 years old. I expect the M2 to outlast the MP, if only for the lack of electronics. 

Naturally, YMMV. 

Good luck with your quest!

[plaidshirts]

If you are struggling to choose between a digital and a film camera, you should consider something like a Leica MD 262 - a digital camera with a film soul. It doesn’t have a screen and photos taken with it has to be “developed” since it only shoots raw. Like you said, I don’t see why it couldn’t last 15-20 years. I sure hope it does. 

[pixie]

You already have the solution! The Canon AE-1 with 50mm f1.8 lens a great combo.

I love my Canons (AE-1P, AE-1, Av-1) are really nice and all controls similar to Leica M..

I would use the Canon and simply feed film.. 

I have tested and results are very equal, the Canon lenses low contrast as are my Leitz lenses.

If after a year you want M film camera, there are lots..

[earleygallery]

Hmmm. Why did you get a Q if you want to shoot with only a 35mm lens? 

Sell the Q and buy a digital M and 35mm lens. Add a user Leica M2 body for film use (or just use your Canon for film). 

Edited March 27, 2019 by earleygallery

[spydrxx]

 IMHO you're overthinking things. If you want a Leica film body, just get one. I kept my M4 for 43 years and while owning it also had an M6 and several Leica SLR cameras. When I began switching to digital I even got rid of the M4, having already disposed of the M6, which I really didn't like after using it a couple of years. Several years later I came back to using some film and bought a iif and M2 - both for less than the price of another M4. They'll last for the rest of my life, while I doubt an M6 would still be fully functional. You're right, the lenses can be used on both film & digital, not just Leicas but also others like M4/3, Sony etc.  As you get older, and Leica continues to introduce increasingly improved digital bodies...you can pick one up if that's what you want. Personally, given your age, I'd just stick with the Canon for film (I still have a T90 which sees occasional use) and your Q. But to each his own.

 

[Einst_Stein]

A Leica M film camera may last forever , but not sure about the film and the public film service. Be prepared the film may be discontinued again. 

The wise decision will go with the trend. With all thing considered, digital will outlast film practically. 

I enjoy both film and digital for their different appearance, may be sort of tea and coffee. There is no need to take a position. 

 

[Pyrogallol]

In 40 years time you will want a Leica 3D with a brain interface so that you only have to think about the picture to have it recorded, and printed on 3D paper.

[Och]

1 hour ago, spydrxx said:

 Personally, given your age, I'd just stick with the Canon for film (I still have a T90 which sees occasional use) and your Q. 

 

Thanks! The Q is my favorite digital camera yet, so this might actually be the primary option I'm leaning towards. I'm curious about the context behind my age. Are you saying I'm old so just stick to gear I have and am used to, or I'm young and there will be more and more technology introduced in my lifetime?  Or neither? 😀

The internet is a weird place, some places late 30s makes me ancient and some I'm still quite young so I get confused sometimes when my age is brought up... 🤣

[spydrxx]

Think of your age in the Leica timeline...no confusion there😀

[Ko.Fe.]

My family FED-2 will outlast any film Leica.  Any film Leica will last only until parts are supplied by Leica and here is very skilled people to use these parts in repair. From all film more less regular camera makers on Leica makes film camera, but only few per year.

I don't think service for film M will lasts more than one decade from now.

FED-2 parts are availible from more than one million cameras made and complete overhaul is DIY possible.

With digital cameras it is not only shorter supply of the parts, but batteries. M8/M9 batteries are still sold by Leica, but nobody knows for how long and here is no fully compatible third party batteries and only few are availible.

But. If you just want to keep film Leica, without use, they should lasts for 40 years.

I suggest M2/3 after CLA and with new curtains, main light seal changed.

I used M3 DS ELC with C seal in 2017. It worked just fine. My M4-2 is in need of service, parts regularly. 

[Jon Glass]

Are you after an heirloom, or a camera?  No judgement in the question - I make no bones about the fact that I switched to Leica because I wanted a camera I could use for a lifetime (MP) and maybe give to my kids.  The mortality rate for digital cameras, even Leicas, can't compare to film, so a digital M was out for me.  I also love the film process and will build my own dark room to support my habit, so that's obviously part of the calculus for my decision.

On the other hand, if your goal is simply to take the pictures you want to take...you have a film camera that is serviceable today, and a phenomenal digital camera - from a utility standpoint it sounds like you already have what you need.

Edit:  Lest I make myself a hypocrite, I should also note that sometimes what you want is what you want, and nothing else will do.  If you want a digital M, sell your gear and buy one.  If you can get 10 years out of it, the costs per year actually start to look reasonable.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Jon Glass

[jmahto]

On longevity of digital cameras... 10 years is very reasonable for today’s cameras. My Canon 40D from 2007 is still functional as new and its 10mp output with good lenses are still good enough for A3 prints. I have bought three digital cameras since then that didn’t add too much to image quality for my 90% usage. Repairabiliy is an issue for 10 years old camera but I don’t think modern cameras go bad that often.

Edit: I just realized that my M240 is in 5th year and going strong.

Edited March 29, 2019 by jmahto

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gbealnz]

I still have and use occasionally my Digilux 4.3, it dates to the turn of the century. Would I use it every day in preference to the latest and greatest? No, but it is testament to the longevity of the partnership that was Leica/Fuji.

Gary

[Jon Glass]

11 hours ago, jmahto said:

On longevity of digital cameras... 10 years is very reasonable for today’s cameras. My Canon 40D from 2007 is still functional as new and its 10mp output with good lenses are still good enough for A3 prints. I have bought three digital cameras since then that didn’t add too much to image quality for my 90% usage. Repairabiliy is an issue for 10 years old camera but I don’t think modern cameras go bad that often.

Edit: I just realized that my M240 is in 5th year and going strong.

This is a good point and a fair distinction to make - true functional longevity vs the perceived value of the technology relative to the current state of the art.  An old DSLR going from 4mp to 8mp probably felt like a much larger advancement back when those were top of the line than, say, going from 24mp to 47mp today.

Obsolescence in digital cameras always came pretty quickly as new and substantial gains were made in sensor technology.  It's entirely possible that as advancements slow, cameras will cease to become obsolete with the same rapidity we have seen historically...which means that digital cameras really might reasonably become tools one expects to own and use for 10+ years.

Dammit...I think this thread is talking me into a digital M.  When does the M11 come out?

Edited March 29, 2019 by Jon Glass