Not corrosion again... I hope

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

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Got my Mk1 from one of the first batches and sadly with corrosion and a replaced sensor after long battles before Leica officially recognized the problem.

I recently learnt, from posts here how to find out which one that was used, that I got the 52 version, and not the 53.

Have not used the camera that much since the replacement way back, due to an analog M-A obsession for a while, but picking up my Mk1 I noticed some worrying dots again (see enclosed snapshot).  Worth noting that I have not changed the lens since I got the camera back from sensor replacement, hence dust due lens switches should be close to zero.

Friends, is this the first sign of yet another corrosion problem? I never got obvious halos in the first instance that often are highlighted, but Leica did say it was corrosion anyway. If so, it will be last time and sadly a switch to an M10-D?

/magnus

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Edited March 10, 2019 by Magnus_L_Andersson

[mmradman]

What date you had sensor replaced, are you sure you have the the corroded sensor replaced with the latest version? 

To get better idea what is the proportion of image crop showing that anomaly,  looks small but not typical dust, could be bad. 

[jaapv]

It does look like corrosion, but one would need to inspect the sensor to be sure. If your sensor was replaced more than five years ago, I fear that Leica will hit you with the 50% charge. However, if it is just this one spot, you could simply treat it like a dust spot and clone it out. If you have Photoshop, make a droplet.

Or, alternately, take advantage of Leica's trade-in offer. 

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

mmradman, the sensor was replaced 2015705 and as I wrote it was replaced with a version 52 that I think is the old one. The spot is the the regular size of those often showed as bad ones.

jaapv, hoped that you would have said that it was definitely not corrosion. I have sent Leica an email today with dng, and it was replaced 2015/05 so we will see what they want to do. The sad thing is that my camera was from the first batch to Sweden (#2) and I spotted these weird things very early on and if it has to got to Germany again it will be the fourth time and up till now it has spent almost a year in services.

/magnus

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

UPDATE: Corrosion was confirmed by Leica based on dng, and camera will be sent to Germany and I have to decide on sensor replacement or upgrade.

Sadly, upgrade to M10-D was not possible to get, hence it boils down to sensor replacement or leaving the monochrome world for an M10-P. Since, based on comments here there seems to be some kind of consensus that the 246 Monochrom cannot offer the same "feeling" as the the M9 version, or?

How would you do? If I go for M10-P, then it will be the M-A that will have to do the b/w work, and the M10-P to be  the color camera. In other words, opposite to my current approach.

In summary, after 3 visits to Leica before they in May '15 replaced the sensor it's time for the 5th and last (?) visit to Germany...  😞

[Luke_Miller]

On 3/12/2019 at 10:25 AM, Magnus_L_Andersson said:

Sadly, upgrade to M10-D was not possible to get, hence it boils down to sensor replacement or leaving the monochrome world for an M10-P. Since, based on comments here there seems to be some kind of consensus that the 246 Monochrom cannot offer the same "feeling" as the the M9 version, or?

I shoot with the M9M and M246.  My color body is the M240.  I am very pleased with the results I get from both Monochroms.  Each will out resolve the M240 (and likely the M10 since resolution is the same).  The improvement in high ISO performance will typically have me grabbing the M246, but I prefer the look and feel of the M9M body.   In my shooting any differences between the two due to the differing technology of the sensors is not apparent.  The M-246 is clearly the better monochrome camera, but the M9M still has its appeal.  In your situation I would get an M246 if the M9M could not affordably be repaired.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Luke_Miller

[Jeff S]

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What’s the cost estimate to replace the sensor?  Is that worth it, given that you’ve hardly used the camera in 4 years?

Any digital M, other than the Monochrom, is still fully capable of shooting color or b/w, especially if one is proficient at PP.  I have an M10 and an original Monochrom (bought used with new sensor).  But that doesn’t stop me from using the M10 for b/w if the opportunity arises. The MM is a special camera, but a lot comes down to  workflow preferences (use of color filters vs using color channels in PP; or the psychology of an all-b/w workflow) as well as output requirements (print size, for example). Both cameras are fully capable of superb results.  Even an M8 or M8.2 can produce wonderful b/w, at an affordable cost. 

Whatever floats your boat.

Jeff

[Susie]

Hi Magnus,

My MM1 had a replacement in October 2015 with a 52 sensor like yours, which recently has started to corrode again .  The corrosion is only just visiable, but as it has started I was recomended to send it in. As the Type 52 replacement was done less than 5 years ago Leica  are  replacing it free of charge.  There is an option, which I have taken, to have a service at the same time, which costs about £150.  I would check with your local dealer, as your camera should be eligible too to have it done free of charge.  My M9 is in as well for a sensor change, for which I have to pay - original sensor from 2009.

The advise I was given by my dealer's technician was that as the M9 and MM1 are more than capable cameras (especially with the M9 if one doesn't push the ISO too far) if you like the camera and the images the CCD produces then have it repaired.  Even if you have to pay, it is still much cheaper than trading it in.

Susie

Edited March 14, 2019 by Susie

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

3 hours ago, Susie said:

Hi Magnus,

My MM1 had a replacement in October 2015 with a 52 sensor like yours, which recently has started to corrode again .  The corrosion is only just visiable, but as it has started I was recomended to send it in. As the Type 52 replacement was done less than 5 years ago Leica  are  replacing it free of charge.  There is an option, which I have taken, to have a service at the same time, which costs about £150.  I would check with your local dealer, as your camera should be eligible too to have it done free of charge.  My M9 is in as well for a sensor change, for which I have to pay - original sensor from 2009.

The advise I was given by my dealer's technician was that as the M9 and MM1 are more than capable cameras (especially with the M9 if one doesn't push the ISO too far) if you like the camera and the images the CCD produces then have it repaired.  Even if you have to pay, it is still much cheaper than trading it in.

Susie

Interesting to hear about free replacement since my sensor was replaced in May 2015 according to Leica and to me the only options were replacement for a hefty sum or rebate on upgrade. Anyone else that can confirm similar free-of-charge offer lately?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Magnus_L_Andersson

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

18 hours ago, Jeff S said:

What’s the cost estimate to replace the sensor?  Is that worth it, given that you’ve hardly used the camera in 4 years?

Any digital M, other than the Monochrom, is still fully capable of shooting color or b/w, especially if one is proficient at PP.  I have an M10 and an original Monochrom (bought used with new sensor).  But that doesn’t stop me from using the M10 for b/w if the opportunity arises. The MM is a special camera, but a lot comes down to  workflow preferences (use of color filters vs using color channels in PP; or the psychology of an all-b/w workflow) as well as output requirements (print size, for example). Both cameras are fully capable of superb results.  Even an M8 or M8.2 can produce wonderful b/w, at an affordable cost. 

Whatever floats your boat.

Jeff

Agree that M9M is not the only M able to produce great b/w, but to me it’s more a way of working or mindset, like why I had the funds for another M it would be an M10-D since like the “analog” way of working. Hence, the ultimate one would be a monochrome version of it.

Not using it that much last years was not only my annoyance with the camera almost commuting to Germany, but also a spell of analog fever and a general reduced time for photography due to work and illness.

Sadly, I had just improved my post-processing workflow using recent software developments and been able to reduce the time to something that made it possible to spend more time behind the camera than behind the screen.

[Jeff S]

I would push hard (directly or through my dealer) for free replacement given prior issue and likelihood that some others in your position have received such (and the fact that the fault is theirs, not yours). Worst case, maybe you can get the cost down (did they provide an estimate?).  Squeaky wheel...

Jeff

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jeff S

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I would push hard (directly or through my dealer) for free replacement given prior issue and likelihood that some others in your position have received such (and the fact that the fault is theirs, not yours). Worst case, maybe you can get the cost down (did they provide an estimate?).  Squeaky wheel...

Jeff

They just let me know the official pricing I have seen in this forum, but told they would give an estimate after evaluating the camera. However, I’m very surprised if there is one official and one unofficial price list since there is a huge difference between €1500 and zero for replacement. Obviously there is always different pricing for nobodies and celebs, but different ones for nobodies sounds not like any good deal for them - assuming 2 bodies (M9M and MA) and 3 LUX lenses last 7 years count as good enough for special treatment.  The one here who got it for free may have had a newer camera than mine from the first ‘12 batch. It puzzles me as much why the 10-D was not an option, when it’s pricing is as 10-P and their margins probably similar.

[Jeff S]

I suggest you bring that energy and frustration in conversations with them.  (This is also where good dealer representation can be helpful.)  Unfortunately I’ve read about too many instances of disparate treatment on a range of issues, for various Leica systems.    When German service isn’t required, I increasingly look to DAG for service.

Jeff

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

Waiting for feedback from Germany, but looks like they stick to the official prices for replacements and upgrades.

A thorough pixel peeping reveals that first signs of corrosion was possibly already occurring in March ‘17, ie almost two years after sensor replacement. However, both then and now I would have interpreted the spots as dust. Not until early this year I would have started to get annoyed by the amount of “dust” and probably sent the camera for cleaning, then realising it was corrosion. Hence, shit happens and for some several times...

Have been catching up on everything written on the MM1, MM2 and M10 knowing that b/w is my preferred digital mindset. For color I have the M-A and film with the characteristics I would anyway try to replicate by simulation if I would use a camera like the M10. Hence, then it boils down to sensor replacement or MM2, or the need for better low light properties than offered by MM1 when going above ISO 3200, But, even up to 6400 the MM1 noise looks “nice” according to several “experts”.

So, as it feels right now most probably I will replace the sensor and use the money I “save” on not upgrading to get a Summaron 28/5.6 and wait for 2021 and a most probably ridiculously expensive M11 with >50 MP.

/Magnus 

[Susie]

Hi Magnus,

An update on my MM1, which I got back yesterday.  It was made in 08/2014, had a replacement original type sensor in 10/15 and another replacement with the new type sensor in 03/19.  Both sensor replacements were done free of charge, although I did pay for having the optional service done which was about £150.

These are all facts and not speculation!  I would seriously press for your camera to be treated in the same way.  If you need, PM me and I'll give you my details to back your claim.

Best wishes,

Susie

P.S. Just one thought that has occured to me - the camera is still less than five years old, maybe it was this that swung it to be FOC and not the fact that it is less than five years since the sensor was last changed...  I did not have the manufacture date when I posted earlier.

[low325]

Very good to hear that CCD Monochroms live!  Though, i think you can now trade up to M10-D from a corrosion affected sensor.

[faxao]

Long live CCD !

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

Update: Corrosion confirmed and I decided to keep the camera and just have sensor replacement for a rather hefty sum since it is more than five years old (from the first batch). Comparing pros and cons of all options it is too unique to let go, and then we will see if I complement it with the M11 when it may appear in ‘20 or the M-A will stay the workhorse for colour. Now it’s just to wait for my old friend to arrive from its hopefully last German trip. To gain some happiness out of it I also ordered a Summaron 28/5.6 😉

[Magnus_L_Andersson]

On 4/5/2019 at 4:49 PM, low325 said:

Very good to hear that CCD Monochroms live!  Though, i think you can now trade up to M10-D from a corrosion affected sensor.

Nope, only M10 and M10-P was the message a few days ago from Germany.

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Hallo,

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[Magnus_L_Andersson]

On 4/4/2019 at 9:44 AM, Susie said:

Hi Magnus,

An update on my MM1, which I got back yesterday.  It was made in 08/2014, had a replacement original type sensor in 10/15 and another replacement with the new type sensor in 03/19.  Both sensor replacements were done free of charge, although I did pay for having the optional service done which was about £150.

These are all facts and not speculation!  I would seriously press for your camera to be treated in the same way.  If you need, PM me and I'll give you my details to back your claim.

Best wishes,

Susie

P.S. Just one thought that has occured to me - the camera is still less than five years old, maybe it was this that swung it to be FOC and not the fact that it is less than five years since the sensor was last changed...  I did not have the manufacture date when I posted earlier.

Yes the five year limit is the catch that ended up with a hefty cost...