Leica M-A problem

[Kevin Parratt]

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On 7/29/2021 at 5:43 AM, earleygallery said:

Hold on, you haven't just had the film processed, you've known about the issue since at least early in 2020? Have you bothered to speak to the dealer you bought it from?

The rangefinder can be knocked out of alignment if the camera is dropped or knocked. If you are travelling about it's quite possible that it's happened, possible!

I see someone has posted you a link to your nearest dealer - see if they can realign it for you. Not sure what else you'll do, chuck it in a bin?

It was out of alignment new out of the box. Loaded and the first frames exposed at Leitz Park, on the premises, meters from the shop. Not knocked or dropped. I am sure that security cameras will have the first hours of the camera well covered.

You seem to be somewhat indignant that a jewel from your crown is flawed.

[Matlock]

3 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

It was out of alignment new out of the box. Loaded and the first frames exposed at Leitz Park, on the premises, meters from the shop. Not knocked or dropped. I am sure that security cameras will have the first hours of the camera well covered.

You seem to be somewhat indignant that a jewel from your crown is flawed.

And you seem to be overly defensive.

[ianman]

3 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

You mean from the Leitz Park shop counter to just outside the front door, where the first frames were exposed?

It’s a pity you didn’t notice the misaligned rangefinder when you were there.

[Helge]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Kevin Parratt:

"Caused by Transport" ... 

You mean from the Leitz Park shop counter to just outside the front door, where the first frames were exposed?

If a mechanism is so frail that it can't survive such gentle handling, then something is wrong, wouldn't you agree?

Something wrong with quality control.

There is nothing wrong with quality control based on one incident. The transport problem could have happened before arriving at the shop, by your handling of the camera or any other person handling it between final quality control and your first shot. I assume you purchased the lens you used for those pictures at the same time, so any defect at the lenses is probably out of question.

We never saw any of those pictures, so any guess of a root cause is not possible.

You have to understand that there is no failure free product in the world, nowhere. Failures can always happen whether it is 1 out of 10 produced items (very bad), 1 out of some 1000s (good) or 1 out of a million (fabulous). A good quality control makes the occurrences only smaller but will never make them going away fully.

 The issue here is your somewhat irresponsible handling of the actual issue, by not sending it in directly after finding the problem but just blaming the company without any facts.
Have you ever been really interested in getting the problem fixed or do just want to be pitied?

Edited August 4, 2021 by Helge

[Reactivestills]

Can anyone confirm the viewfinder is now sealed on the newer M-A bodies as I am interested in purchasing two.

 

Or is there still a dust issue ?

Edited August 4, 2021 by Reactivestills

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, Reactivestills said:

Can anyone confirm the viewfinder is now sealed on the newer M-A bodies as I am interested in purchasing two.

 

Or is there still a dust issue ?

Just checked minutes ago, to be sure (never notice this kind of issues),

mines (two) don't have any dust in their VF.

[earleygallery]

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19 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

It was out of alignment new out of the box. Loaded and the first frames exposed at Leitz Park, on the premises, meters from the shop. Not knocked or dropped. I am sure that security cameras will have the first hours of the camera well covered.

You seem to be somewhat indignant that a jewel from your crown is flawed.

My crown?? LOL.

It was just a suggestion as to what might have happened. I guess the good thing is that you only wasted one film and you don't appear to need the camera, you're not shooting tons of film with it. You know what your options are now to put it right. It's not Leica's fault that you're now out of the warranty period although there's no harm in telling them your story and hoping for some charity.

[Cayenne]

I think I"m about to pull the trigger on a used but excellent looking condition MA.

When I receive it, of course I'll be running rolls of film through it.

Can ya'll give me any pointers on what to look for when I get it to make sure it is fully in working condition?

Is there a way from the serial numbers to know how old it is?

Thank you in advance,

cayenne

[a.noctilux]

Hello Cayenne,

When you use it (as usual) you would see if something is faulty with your M-A.

No way to know by serial number when the camera was made.

Anyway not before end of 2014 😉.

 

[Helge]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Cayenne:

I think I"m about to pull the trigger on a used but excellent looking condition MA.

When I receive it, of course I'll be running rolls of film through it.

Can ya'll give me any pointers on what to look for when I get it to make sure it is fully in working condition?

Is there a way from the serial numbers to know how old it is?

Thank you in advance,

cayenne

Run a slide film through it (I.e. Ektachrome 100) using a good light meter and use most of the exposure times,  use different lenses at different distances at open and other aperture values and ask the lab to not cut it. That will provide you quickly (depending on the lab’s lead time) a validation of most mechanical functions (transport, exposure time, RF accuracy).

Especially the RF accuracy can roughly checked upfront w/o waiting for the film been developed by focusing and checking the reading at the lens for plausibility.

[a.noctilux]

I hope I'm wrong 🤞.

As we are in profitability period, I understand that Leica film M CAN (could ?) be "not profitable" for the company anymore.

Some real or not flaws in new products ( reported by new users) for many years now pointed me to this thinking.

These flaws in new M-A/MP were "replaced" by new flaws in "replaced" M !

May I think that Leica Camera do NOT invest in this type of very small production.

[Helge]

I think Leica’s investments in analog are pretty limited. However since probably all past investments are depreciated by now, I’m also confident that they make money on the analog side.

[Matlock]

49 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Some real or not flaws in new products ( reported by new users) for many years now pointed me to this thinking.

These flaws in new M-A/MP were "replaced" by new flaws in "replaced" M !

 

I think that this is the point, "reported by new users". Whilst flaws will occur with any product, most of the, so called, flaws are highlighted by people new to Leicas and these do not represent the true picture.

[a.noctilux]

Peter, I hope so, but

These types of 'flaws' are some cosmetics ( leatherette bulges, counter not aligned ! , etc. ) which in no means have impacts on

photographic 'real use'.

But some reports mention shutter, spacing, focus patch not accurate, counter stuck, and so on.

 

Maybe some older film M technicians are now leaving the company, so some lost of know-how with them.

 

As side note, with my two M-A of end 2014, the 'control  certificates' have two signatures (of two different people, one on each).

So by then we had at less two M film controllers, maybe they assembled the camera too, before control.

 

Side note two; never have any complain with M-A, even not CLA, since 2014.

As I wrote so often, I had some repairs with other older M (M3/4/5/4-2/6/etc.) after using for some times.

When I decided to replace them with MP, never had MP repaired/CLAed, so why I rely on M-A as my last film Ms when available.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Vlad Soare]

20 hours ago, Matlock said:

I think that this is the point, "reported by new users". Whilst flaws will occur with any product, most of the, so called, flaws are highlighted by people new to Leicas and these do not represent the true picture.

Are you saying that these flaws are not real, but just the imagination of people who are new to Leicas? 
 

[Matlock]

1 minute ago, Vlad Soare said:

Are you saying that these flaws are not real, but just the imagination of people who are new to Leicas? 
 

In some cases, but not all, yes.

[a.noctilux]

4 hours ago, Vlad Soare said:

Are you saying that these flaws are not real, but just the imagination of people who are new to Leicas? 
 

Of course NO.

Each new or long time M user has different perspective/expectation.

As long time user, I need only that the Ms (or lenses) work as tools.

I accept some cosmetic flaws (I know that it must not from new gear) that don't impact photos.

I see that new comers don't accept those same flaws and spreed wide those real flaws.

[Vlad Soare]

Fair enough. I can also live with some cosmetic issues (within reason, of course).
I think most newcomers' disappointment stems from the fact that a Leica M is marketed and perceived as much more than just a tool. 

[a.noctilux]

11 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

Fair enough. I can also live with some cosmetic issues (within reason, of course).
I think most newcomers' disappointment stems from the fact that a Leica M is marketed and perceived as much more than just a tool. 

Excellent tools they are, but never in my view something to baby or seen as "perfect de luxe objects" as I see so often some people wrote.

They are created for use (or for some articles for collectors so some amalgam of perception).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Vlad Soare]

No, I'm not saying they should be babied or worshipped. By all means, owning a Leica and not using it to take pictures should be illegal.

What I'm trying to say is that Leica markets these cameras as the pinnacle of technical perfection. They brag about their highly skilled craftsmen, which build these cameras with the utmost care and attention to details. So, when you take your new Leica out of its box and see that the frame counter is misaligned, and then you mount a lens and see that it reaches its infinity stop before the rangefinder does, then you can't help wondering what all that bragging was about.