Which X to buy?

[carbon_dragon]

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12 hours ago, PFM said:

Yep, that was the one, Dave.  I missed the red flag until after I closed the deal.  I wanted to see what shipping outfit he was going to use, and it referenced the package as coming from  Switzerland.  If I had checked that first, then I'd have known it was a scam.  I just thought it was some new seller who couldn't get his descriptions right (no mention of the OVF).  The next day when it was posted as shipped, but no information was given, I had that sinking feeling.  So far I've received no reply from the e-mail I sent the "seller" asking for the shipping information.  Looks like I'll be filing a claim soon.

Maybe I should just save up for a M10-P instead.

PF

I saw that one too. This stuff is expensive and I've been lucky to only have gotten cheated once on a very cheap item in the early days of eBay. Even so I feel like eBay is good for checking prices for expensive items, but I probably won't buy on eBay unless I know the seller (like KEH sells on eBay as well). I think I'd rather pay more and get some kind of service after the sale if it's available. The question is how much of a premium to accept.

I'm sorry this happened to you though. I look at the feedback and the location of the item. If it's somewhere like the Russian Federation or Nigeria or somewhere remote, I typically pass. If there is no feedback, or not much feedback, I tend to pass, though with small amount of feedback, I look at the seller's other items and go read all the feedback to see if the person might just be a person selling off his own stuff and mostly a buyer or something like that. I also look to see if this is an expensive item, and his previous ones have been just a few cheap items.

But none of that is a guarantee. Buying at Tamarkin or KEH or B&H or a reputable dealer is a lot safer (but sometimes more expensive).

Not many X's out there in those places right now though. I saw one 113 for $1300 from a reputable dealer but that's a lot -- $680'ish for an X2. I'm wondering whether that low res screen on the X2 (especially as it has no built in viewfinder) might be a hard thing to take for me. Going for the 113 is going for sheer looks in a lot of ways, I really like that brown and chrome.

Hey let us know if you file a claim and get satisfaction. I hope it works out.

[PFM]

Thanks for the commiserations, all.  I hadn't planned on getting into digital Leica's so soon, it was a bit of an impulse buy based on the price offered.  I can wait until I'm in a better place to do a proper deal on newer equipment.  I'm pretty sure I'll recover the money, as I have an excellent record with eBay.  I've only had one other seller not deliver the goods, and that was years ago.  Since then I've vetted every one to a fine degree.  Until now.  The older self said "Take a chance!", whereas the younger self would have said "Take a pass!".

My problem is I've got around three scenarios on how I want to continue the gear acquisition, and it's whatever presents itself first is the way I pivot.  So who knows what I'll wind up with next.  Maybe a digital CL, or an M6 Classic.  Whatever it is, I'm sure I'll be happy with it.

PF

[earleygallery]

If you paid by PayPal you’ll get your refund, it just takes time to go through the process.

It gives you time to think about what you want or need, impulse buys are rarely a good idea.

[carbon_dragon]

My master plan got a kink. My M9's sensor appears to have the corrosion issue. I emailed both the customer service and repair to see what the outcome might be, but I doubt my camera is less than 5 years old so I suspect that's going to cost quite a bit of money to fix. 😧 We'll see. Hopefully they'll email me back soon and let me know what I can do.

Also, we now have the D-Lux 7 in contention (a.k.a. the LX100 II) which seems pretty cool (and I could buy it new). I'm still tempted by the 113's look though (not the waterproof one, which is confusing since it appears to have the same model number). 

[Trivette]

Personally, for some reason I like the X1 X2 images slightly better than those of the 113. My X2 is strictly a non pocket camera because it is fitted with a 49mm lens barrel (filter/hood adapter). The D-Lux 7 looks really good. If the images are as good as those of the 109, it should be a winner.

[carbon_dragon]

Well, for fixed lens cameras, I tend to prefer 50mm (or the equivalent) and then 35mm. 28mm is a touch wide for me. The X1 and X2 and 113 are all 35mm equivalents. Of course the 109 and the new D-Lux 7 (and the X Vario) all have decent zoom ranges. 

[Trivette]

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I prefer 50mm myself. My current favorite is an M8.2 (1.33 crop factor) with a 35mm Zeiss Biogon. Unfortunately, it's rather heavy, so I usually try to make do with the X Vario or the D-lux 109.

 .

[carbon_dragon]

I used my 35/2 Summicron ASPH with my M8, so I'm right with you. I feel like the weight is OK, BUT if I'm going to a holiday event at my cousin's, I'm wanting something to carry that is a bit easier to forget I'm carrying it. Certainly the X Vario is the heaviest of the choices I'm considering, but it still seems manageable. But the slow apertures worry me in case I want to take pictures of the family indoors.

[aufderlauer]

I ownded the X2 à la carte and now I use for more than 1 year the X113. Optically it's not a big difference. But the bigger X113 feels less than a toy camera. And the operation speed is a bit optimized. At last I just feel to carry a better camera. I also had the XV for some time, and the optics have been really good, but at last I sold it because of the higher f-numbers. 3.5 to 5.6 is not so tempting, and it's also the longer exposure time.  When you see my picture series of this week in the X113 gallery (in the German Forum) then you can see, all the pictures in half darkness had been made at F2.8 and min. 1/60 sec.. That is not possible with the XV. And I don't like always to carry a stative. Free and easy use of the camera, a simple operation menu for fast haptics. If there was a longer lens like 40-50mm, I would pick it in a heartbeat.

I really prefer the X113 over all it's X family sisters.

[Trivette]

You can, of course, push the low light capability of the XV by using higher ISO settings. It seems to do a good job of compensating for the increased noise, but I still feel more comfortable using a faster camera at night. Maybe someone with more XV experience can share additional information about this.

As aufderlauer indicated, it would be great if the 113 were 40-50mm.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Trivette

[3oob]

Il y a 1 heure, Trivette a déclaré:

Vous pouvez bien sûr augmenter la capacité de faible éclairage du XV en utilisant les paramètres ISO. Cela semble bien compenser du bruit, mais je me sens toujours à l'aise d'utiliser une caméra plus rapide la nuit. Peut-être que quelqu'un avec plus d'expérience XV peut partager des informations supplémentaires à ce sujet.

Comme l'a indiqué aufderlauer, ce serait formidable si les 113 mesuraient entre 40 et 50 mm.

 

 in case of low light and not to increase the ISO, I use a monopod or an external flash😉

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by 3oob

[wda]

2 hours ago, Trivette said:

You can, of course, push the low light capability of the XV by using higher ISO settings. It seems to do a good job of compensating for the increased noise, but I still feel more comfortable using a faster camera at night. Maybe someone with more XV experience can share additional information about this.

As aufderlauer indicated, it would be great if the 113 were 40-50mm.

 

When possible I use a tripod, even a table tripod. Otherwise when travelling,  I use my DL 109.

[Trivette]

Even a light weight tripod can help, and the self timer is useful for tripping the shutter. 

[carbon_dragon]

If I’m going to carry a tripod (even a small one) then I’m going to also carry the M and a lens. The whole point for me is something I can have in a belt pouch and if I never use it, that’s OK, it’s there if I need it.

[Trivette]

4 hours ago, carbon_dragon said:

If I’m going to carry a tripod (even a small one) then I’m going to also carry the M and a lens. The whole point for me is something I can have in a belt pouch and if I never use it, that’s OK, it’s there if I need it.

For me that would narrow it down to the X1, X2, DL 109, or (tentatively) DL 7.

[gbealnz]

Yes, agreed Triv, my first thought when the belt pouch was mentioned, I'd not like to have my X-Vario attached to my belt, I'd be sans trousers most of the time. Too big, too heavy, too awkward.

Gary

[Trivette]

36 minutes ago, gbealnz said:

Yes, agreed Triv, my first thought when the belt pouch was mentioned, I'd not like to have my X-Vario attached to my belt, I'd be sans trousers most of the time. Too big, too heavy, too awkward.

Gary

I was thinking the same thing Gary. 🤣

[silverchrome]

On 11/17/2018 at 3:43 PM, wda said:

James, dust can be a problem with any camera. But, in my experience, it doesn't cause serious problems to photographers who handle their cameras considerately and avoid dust and sand polluted environments. Whip it out - Shoot - and Stow it in a good bag or pocket ready for the next opportunity. 

It's the stowing of the camera in a bag or pocket that usually causes the dust!

I've found the best way of avoiding dust on compact cameras is to put them into pouches that have man-made linings. 

[robert blu]

If size and weight are important go for the X1 or X2 

.I still use my X1 (with OVF) when think the M10 is too large or heavy, hiking and/or not specific photo outing.

robert

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Hallo,

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[PFM]

On 11/18/2018 at 3:58 PM, earleygallery said:

If you paid by PayPal you’ll get your refund, it just takes time to go through the process.

It gives you time to think about what you want or need, impulse buys are rarely a good idea.

Hey, I've gotten a lot of good deals buying on impulse.  But the impulse I employ is based on "Is this something I've been looking for?", and "How long before I find another one at this price?".

Anyway, the waiting period is over seeing if the item would arrive within eBay's estimated time frame, so now I can file a claim to get my money back.  It will all be good in the long run.

PF

Edited December 6, 2018 by PFM