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carbon_dragon

Which X to buy?

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Course they're all used now, except for the X-U underwater camera. 

So if I am considering buying one used, the question is which one? For small size, the X1 is probably smaller, especially if I don't care about AF speed? But it has no possibility of a EVF. But an OVF is viable. But also only 12.2MP.

The X2 has more MP, and the possibility of an add on EVF. It's heavier than the X1 but not too much so. 

The X Vario has a zoom, but it's much bigger and the zoom has a pretty slow variable lens (though a very good one)

The X 113 (non XU) is a sweet looking camera -- kind of reminds me of the Q -- just as pretty and much cheaper with a similar excellent fixed lens. But it's heavy enough so I might as well just carry my M and a 50 lens right?

The X-E ... not exactly sure of the role of this camera.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a camera to carry around in my fleece pocket/jacket pocket when I don't want to take an expensive camera with me -- like on family trips or non photo vacations?

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2 hours ago, carbon_dragon said:

Course they're all used now, except for the X-U underwater camera. 

So if I am considering buying one used, the question is which one? For small size, the X1 is probably smaller, especially if I don't care about AF speed? But it has no possibility of a EVF. But an OVF is viable. But also only 12.2MP.

The X2 has more MP, and the possibility of an add on EVF. It's heavier than the X1 but not too much so. 

The X Vario has a zoom, but it's much bigger and the zoom has a pretty slow variable lens (though a very good one)

The X 113 (non XU) is a sweet looking camera -- kind of reminds me of the Q -- just as pretty and much cheaper with a similar excellent fixed lens. But it's heavy enough so I might as well just carry my M and a 50 lens right?

The X-E ... not exactly sure of the role of this camera.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a camera to carry around in my fleece pocket/jacket pocket when I don't want to take an expensive camera with me -- like on family trips or non photo vacations?

They're all nice cameras. To begin though where you left off with fleece jacket, I found that when I traveled with my X1, it always went back to a neck strap. Even with winter coat, unless it's something like an Olympus XA or Contax T, I rarely like stuffing a pocket with a camera. And based on your other observations, while the X 113 is close to M sized, it isa bit less cumbersome and you'll never have that nagging consideration of whether to pack an extra lens along. My two cents- a happy dilemma! :)

David

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The X2 is a bit too bulky for my pockets. The D-Lux 4 is great for pocket carry, but I prefer the slightly larger D-Lux 109 for the built-in viewfinder.

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I would also endorse the D Lux T. 109 which is fairly pocketable.  But the question related to the X-line. I have no problem carrying an X1 in a pocket of casual or outdoor clothing, minus it's attached OVF. It's sheer simplicity of operation is a joy to use.

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I've been looking at the 109 too. The downsides are the smaller sensor (for basically the same price used) and I understand that Leica support stops a lot quicker for the joint venture cameras than it does for the cameras it makes. Otherwise, might it be the case that they would repair an X2 or an X113 longer than a 109?

I usually use a neckstrap but was considering a wrist strap for this camera because I tend to not wear cameras around my neck unless I'm going somewhere to take pictures. And if I'm doing that I probably have an M around my neck. Course there is also the use case of vacations to visit family where that wouldn't be an issue. I may not feel I need a camera enough to bring a bag, but might bring an X or 109 (neckstrap or not).

I am drawn more to the 113 because it's prettier and more like my M, but by the same token, is there any point in using it over the M in that case given the size and weight?

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When I had my X1, my M9 stayed parked often and the X1 got plenty of use. I have an MM currently and had another M9 before it, and all the while, my X 113 got and gets lots of use. For one, it has AF, and also on-board flash that can be useful (it dials down very nicely).  My X 113 was a purchase while looking at a Q. I prefer the size and feel of the X 113. And I know that when I go out with a fixed focal length, I am less distracted so I enjoy travel with it. I am looking forward to travel with my X Vario for similar reasons although it zooms.

If as you mention you like a wrist strap, I would consider the X1. It's plenty pretty and more compact when lens is retracted. Also IQ with X1 is superb.You won't really know until you get hands on both and the decision at that point should be an easy one.

 

Here are three from the X1.  The first is Cairo on the morning prior to the Day of Rage. This first one actually made a beautiful and detailed enlargement that I have framed (hard to see in this jpeg)

Midan Kit Kat, (on Nile River)  Cairo

Cairo

 

 Tel Aviv

Edited by DwF

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I bought an X2 earlier this year with the Leica EVF 2. Using it without the EVF is a time waster in bright sunlight as with all non viewfinder cameras (in my experience). I also bought the Vario a week ago and boy what a camera. In fact both the above are brilliant. Then last week I traded my M Mono in for a new Q. Having spent a week 'playing' with all 3, my money is on the Vario. Not because of the fact it has a zoom lens but for the quality of the 'straight out of the camera' jpegs! As a comparison, the Q jpegs are a no no. But the choice is with you!! I paid £900 for the Vario. A quarter of the price of the Q!! So there is still a bargain to be had if you manage to find one.

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The XV is not pocketable, but it always comes with me on family trips and non-photo adventures as it’s versatility is second to none of the other X’s. It’s does have the slowest lens, but you can get indoor lower light grabs with some forethought and practice. The flash also works well in these situations where allowed. The X1 is an amazing camera in its own right but if you are trying to capture kids or family members it’s  a pretty tough road unless they are very still. Whatever you choose, just give yourself time to learn the camera before heading out the door on vacation, it will pay for itself in keepers!

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I was looking around the various digital offerings from Leica, checking out prices for new and used.  After some extensive info searches in the forums, on YouTube, and online sellers, I came across an X1 being sold for quite a low price, considering it had the original packaging and accessories with it.  I just hope it performs as well as I've seen it can do (as referenced above with DwF's post).  I've been wanting a small, general use, take anywhere digicam for quite a while, and it sounds like the X1 fits the requirements.

PF

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Good luck with your new purchase PF.  And send some pics from Roanoke area! My mom grew up in Pulaski and yours is gorgeous country :)

David

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Yeah, I'm really liking it around here, David.  But as far as the X1 goes, it might not happen.  I was informed today that eBay killed the listing for the camera, and dumped the seller.  Of course, they waited for the transaction to be processed, so now my money will be tied up for a while waiting to see if the seller is going to deliver.  If he doesn't, then I have to file a claim in the Resolution Center.  I guess I should have held off on buying the grip (from a different seller).

PF

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That's a bummer PF,

I hope either you see the camera or your money soon. With this thread going I glanced over at ebay to see what was selling there and think I saw the same one....it looked sketchy because it was priced so low with 36mm OVF and other accessories and the seller had zero feedback. Otherwise the auction looked pretty well put together...I was tempted to try for it myself.

If you don't see it, hopefully you'll see another. Craigslist is always worth checking too.

David

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22 hours ago, DwF said:

That's a bummer PF,

I hope either you see the camera or your money soon. With this thread going I glanced over at ebay to see what was selling there and think I saw the same one....it looked sketchy because it was priced so low with 36mm OVF and other accessories and the seller had zero feedback. Otherwise the auction looked pretty well put together...I was tempted to try for it myself.

If you don't see it, hopefully you'll see another. Craigslist is always worth checking too.

David

Yep, that was the one, Dave.  I missed the red flag until after I closed the deal.  I wanted to see what shipping outfit he was going to use, and it referenced the package as coming from  Switzerland.  If I had checked that first, then I'd have known it was a scam.  I just thought it was some new seller who couldn't get his descriptions right (no mention of the OVF).  The next day when it was posted as shipped, but no information was given, I had that sinking feeling.  So far I've received no reply from the e-mail I sent the "seller" asking for the shipping information.  Looks like I'll be filing a claim soon.

Maybe I should just save up for a M10-P instead.

PF

Edited by PFM

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That's really a bummer PF.  I'm sure you'll get your money back at least. Amazing what people will do to rip others off. M9 is less saving and really nice if you find one with a replaced sensor.

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9 hours ago, PFM said:

Looks like I'll be filing a claim soon.

PayPal is pretty good about getting your money back, especially if they closed the seller down. I had something very similar happen a few years ago and once the resolution process started the money was refunded quickly.

If the X1 suited your needs, I think it would be worth keeping your eye out for one. Good deals can certainly be had, you just have to keep your eye out on a regular basis. Also, check out http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10. We have a good community and Leica stuff comes up pretty often. Like all internet purchase forums, just perform your due diligence and always trust your instinct before sending payment. 

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The problem with most fixed lens cameras is that if dust gets in and onto the sensor (and it often does) then it means an expensive trip back to be opened up and cleaned.

The XU should be OK from this point being weather sealed so if I wanted an X model I'd probably plump for that one.

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1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

The problem with most fixed lens cameras is that if dust gets in and onto the sensor (and it often does) then it means an expensive trip back to be opened up and cleaned.

The XU should be OK from this point being weather sealed so if I wanted an X model I'd probably plump for that one.

James, dust can be a problem with any camera. But, in my experience, it doesn't cause serious problems to photographers who handle their cameras considerately and avoid dust and sand polluted environments. Whip it out - Shoot - and Stow it in a good bag or pocket ready for the next opportunity. 

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