Nitnaros Posted July 15, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Folks, I just identified that my M8 images exhibit a serious image artefact: A vertical line appears that looks like a "scratch": Example attached: - #1 ... 100% crop - #2 ... Resized image itself. *** Has anybody come across this problem? Observations: - The artefact shows up across different ISO values; only for the lowest ISO of 160 it can be hard to detect or looks like it is not there - Shows up across multiple lenses - Shows up on DNG's and Leica JPG's - Shows up whether you shoot with a setting of regular color or saturation or color saturation set to b/w (which of coruse does not make a difference for DNG's anyhow) - Shows up across various exposure scenarios (day, night time etc.) - Occurs with and without IR-cut filters - The problem occurs only since the last 3 weeks or so; but it is not related to the latest firmware - I have multiple sessions shot with 1.102 without these artefacts; that is a confusing fact... - Its clearly different to the sensor centerfold issue (left half of image has different density than right half) reported by other folks. I have no idea what causes this artefact to show up. If nobody has experienced that or knows how to fix it, it seems like a case for contacting Leica New Jersey; I would expect a fast replacement body. Very annoying. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Hi Nitnaros, Take a look here M8 Image Artefacts looking like scratches.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 15, 2007 Peter first thing to try is a different SD card it is possible that it maybe corrupt. I think we have seen this before with the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitnaros Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted July 15, 2007 Good idea, Guy, but that's not it. I just tried two different Sandisk Extreme-III 2GB and one Transcend 4G, same effect. I believe it could have something to do with how data is processed; either right at the hardware/sensor level or later down the processing pipeline. I have not changed firmware etc., so it puzzles me why the M8 starts producing this faulty pixel line. The line is in a horizontal image always running vertically, in about 25% (image-length) distance from the right edge. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 15, 2007 Might be worth reloading 1.102 than Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 15, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 15, 2007 Could be a defective pixel string... it happens in CCD manufacturing... if so, go on with warranty replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 15, 2007 I would try reloading and if that is not it call Leica NJ tomorrow . Robert Fisk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitnaros Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted July 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Reloaded 1.102 ... no change, problem persists. Could be a defective pixel string... it happens in CCD manufacturing... if so, go on with warranty replacement. Hmm, but then my M8 (purchased Jan-07) should have had this problem already earlier. I checked my older shots, they did not have this problem; only since about 2-3 weeks. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 15, 2007 Jpegs in camera Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 15, 2007 Any hits on it , wondering if you knocked out a sensor board connection on that string, or a short This goes completely top to bottom , than i think this maybe it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitnaros Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted July 15, 2007 The faulty pixel line does not go top-bottom; but its always in the same place. Both the DNG's and the in-camera JPG's show it. So this stuff is really in the sensor data that gets processed. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted July 15, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 15, 2007 - The problem occurs only since the last 3 weeks or so; but it is not related to the latest firmware - I have multiple sessions shot with 1.102 without these artefacts; that is a confusing fact... OK, I'm going to step in here as I have experienced this issue and remedy firsthand, on not one but two M8s, of which Leica acknowledged and addressed professionally. Kudos to Leica Camera Inc, in Allendale, NJ, and Robert Fisk in particular. This problem is known by Leica, but to a lessor extent known to the public because it has cropped up only on a small number of M8s. However, If one searches through this forum, you will find occasionally reports of this issue dating back to the original release of the M8. The issue has nothing to do with memory cards, firmware versions, file types, batteries, et cetera. It is an internal hardware issue and you need contact Leica directly about arranging service. This is the fastest and only way to fix the problem unless you discovered the issue shortly after purchase and have a reputable Authorized Leica Dealer that acknowledges local state consumer laws and is willing to accept return and offer an exchange. I cannot speak for Leica or say the exact source of the issue or related component failure whether it be the sensor itself or a combination of items. However, the issue becomes more pronounced as the ISO setting increases. It also may not be detectable under particular lighting conditions and therefore only discovered long after the camera has been purchased and used, therefore giving the illusion that the problem recently occurred. From this, three very important points should be evident or at least I should make clear: First, know your dealer beforehand. What is their return policy? Is it in writing? Seek to develop a long term relationship with a dealer based on trust and quality of after sales service. Second, plan time ahead to thoroughly test out you purchase asap afterwards. Ideally, and with the right dealership, make the purchase in person, then open the box and conduct, at least, a brief test of the item before leaving the shop. Let them know of the purchase beforehand and arrange for a fully charged battery to be available. My current dealer has only a virtual storefront but I selected them based on careful research and customer reports of how they dealt with issues, when they did occur, both pre and post sale. Additionally, I have started purchasing all of my Cosina Voigtlander lenses through CameraQuest because I understand that every product that comes in is gone over before it is sold. Long live the little guy. He is us. Third, got a problem, call the manufacturer to report the issue, ask questions and get answers directly from the horses mouth in order to be properly educated and to expedite a solution. Don’t expect Leica to discover a rumor of an issue or expect yourself to find accurate facts about an issue off of a online forum. Go directly to the source. Additionally, let’s try to maintain an responsible, informative and supportive online community based on knowledge and verifiable facts. I bring this up not of this post or anyone in particular but because I was so turned-off by the hysteria and mob attitude I perceived generated during the release of the M8 and initial issues. As such, I kept my problems, similar to reported in this thread, to myself, my original dealer and Leica. Again, Leica professionally addressed my situation and I moved on to a new dealer who I am very pleased with and have proven themselves many times over. Geoff myspace.com/geoffotos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted July 15, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 15, 2007 As Geoff says, don't fiddle with the cards, JPEGS, firmware updates etc. This is a very well know hardware issue and Leica NJ should just replace the camera. In my case it also sprang up suddently in the middle of a shoot on a camera that was several months old. Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitnaros Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted July 15, 2007 Geoff, Thank you for your note; I had the feeling it is hardware or firmware related. Yes, at high ISO shots the problem is easier to detect. The confirmation from your side is reassuring. I'll talk to Leica NJ and my dealer as well (Photovillage in NYC, a dealer I have been 100% satisfied with). -- The M8 itself is an inteesting beast - I am developing a love/hate relationship with this thing... Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 15, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 15, 2007 Additionally, let’s try to maintain an responsible, informative and supportive online community based on knowledge and verifiable facts. I bring this up not of this post or anyone in particular but because I was so turned-off by the hysteria and mob attitude I perceived generated during the release of the M8 and initial issues. As such, I kept my problems, similar to reported in this thread, to myself, my original dealer and Leica. A lot of that is behind us now ,which is great. I agree it was messy at times. Lately it is just simple question that result in what to do next or send it in. call Robert Fisk and explain the issue and they should take care of this is .I would also point them to Geoff's post for the details Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMF Posted July 15, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 15, 2007 Here are some thread concerning the vertical line issue. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/26952-vertical-line-follow-up.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/25019-status-vertical-line-issue.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/24625-white-line-images.html I have the same line appearing with my M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted July 15, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 15, 2007 I read in an earlier thread about this same thing. It has to do with the sensor and the fact that data flows off it via two data paths in order to speed up the transfer from sensor to memory card. The sensor has sort of a left and right side. I believe the cameras were replaced in the past for this issue. I believe it was Howard Cornielson who said this. I may not have his name correctly spelled right. He was the Leica rep in Texas for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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