Skin tone with S(006), S(007), SL, and X1D

[mgrayson3]

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The eternal question: Does the S(006) have magic with skin tones? Are the newer CMOS sensors just as good with, and with higher ISO? To explore this, I wanted to remove as many variables as possible, and so I asked my brother-in-law, Mark Mann http://markmannphoto.com, a well known portrait photog, to assist. Mark uses the S(006) as his first choice and the SL if he'll need any video or fast AF. He set up lighting with a 4000K ring light and a white back wall and took portraits of a colleague at f/4, 1/125 sec, ISO 100 with four different cameras. The S(006) and S(007) used the S120 Macro (his portrait lens of choice). The SL used the native 24-90 at 90mm, and the X1D used the 90mm XCD lens.

 

Here are the results processed with the Adobe Standard profile and no other adjustments except the color temperature set to 4000K. The X1D shot was also processed in Phocus.

 

 

And, for fun, here is Mark's quick post-process of one of the S(006) captures. He uses PS rather heavily.

 

 

In the next post, I'll show what happens with mild color and exposure adjustments.

 

Best,

 

Matt

Edited September 21, 2018 by mgrayson3

[ZHNL]

Hi, MAtt, I appreciate the work you have done here. 

 

I have also really enjoyed Mark's work with Leica S. I hold very high interest to look forward to seeing more from this comparison.

 

Like you said, a picture worth a lot more than words which is I have been doing

[mgrayson3]

The next step was simple white balance adjustment, mostly off the back wall. Please excuse obvious errors. It's hard to keep track of all this, especially as I am a landscape/architecture guy. 

 

Untitled by Matthew Grayson, on Flickr

 

Finally, we have skin tone edited to the extent of my limited abilities. There is no retouching of pink patches under the eyes, or eye whitening, or loose hair cloning. Just going for basic skin tone. I hope to get lessons on this from Mark - retouching makes more sense to a landscape guy than skin tone!

 

 

 

 

(I processed this differently in LR. I didn't do anything in Phocus after the initial conversion)

 

 

Well, that's my first cut. No doubt I could do better with the 007 file, but it is harder to work with than the others. In particular, it came out 1/2 step darker, although everything was shot manually with the same settings.

 

More if I can,

 

Matt

[tom0511]

so whats your conclusion?

on my screen S006 looks best in this comparison.

Edited September 22, 2018 by tom0511

[frame-it]

i like the X1d/phocus colors.

[mgrayson3]

so whats your conclusion?

 

 

The pictures appear in the order of ease of processing. Possibly the Phocus-processed X1D image is easier than the LR-processed, but the difference is one of base contrast. What's surprising is that the 007 faired worst by a large margin - to the point that I wonder if my camera needs calibration. Or, perhaps, we should have shot and examined a gray card and set the exposure to compensate. The color might have been better with more exposure. I don't know. There is a rabbit hole here and I'm not sure how far down it I want to go.

 

If I were taking portraits in controlled ample light, the S(006) would be my clear choice. Realistically, at home, I'd use the SL, as it is a fast camera with very good color. Now that the 75 and 90 Summicrons are available for the SL, even die-hard S shooters like Mark Mann are turning to them more often. The X1D is too slow for my taste, although I've seen excellent portraits taken with it.

 

The S(007)? Well, since I now carry the X1D around town for Cityscape shots, I don't know when it will get more use. I still prefer the S lenses to anything else - let's see what Leica does with the S system.

 

I freely admit that these conclusions are not what I was expecting (and publicly proclaiming). But I love to be wrong. When I'm right, I haven't learned anything. When I'm wrong, I do!

 

Best,

 

Matt

 

PS. Mark will (once again) give me a lesson in portrait processing. Retouching, I understand. Skin tone is a mystery.

Edited September 22, 2018 by mgrayson3

[mgrayson3]

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i like the X1d/phocus colors.

They're good, aren't they?

[frame-it]

yes....especially the one in the 1st post "Here are the results processed with the Adobe Standard profile and no other adjustments except the color temperature set to 4000K. The X1D shot was also processed in Phocus."

 

 

 

 

 

They're good, aren't they?

[mgrayson3]

yes....especially the one in the 1st post "Here are the results processed with the Adobe Standard profile and no other adjustments except the color temperature set to 4000K. The X1D shot was also processed in Phocus."

 

It's true. I should have just left it alone.It's clear I'm not a portrait photog. I'll try to do the whole thing in Phocus...

[ZHNL]

Again, thank you for the comparison. 

 

My order of preference is 

S006-X1DLR--SL--X1DPH/S007 

 

One thing we learn is the results can be subjective as some seems prefer X1DPH but I almost feel I like X1DLR as much as S006 here. 

I think S007 image here will definitely benefit from reduce contrast and clarity. Usually under studio light is not worst case for camera evaluate skin tone and results tend to converge. Because the image have lots of signal (light), always good exposure. so mess around with profile and HSL might reach satisfied results. I definitely can make S007 portrait file work for my satisfaction but somehow It miss some kind of delicacy and subtle color hue for skin, lack of a touch of magic I feel I can get constantly from my S006    

[albireo_double]

If you keep publishing these comparisons, you'll make me get an S006, to accompany my S007. 

[tom0511]

I would not draw too much conclusion from one image, specially if the S007 is underexposed.

[mgrayson3]

Me neither. But a half stop really shouldn’t destroy the color rendition of a CMOS sensor. I suspect my own limited processing skills are to blame. Let me get educated and try again

[mgrayson3]

Again, thank you for the comparison. 

 

My order of preference is 

S006-X1DLR--SL--X1DPH/S007 

 

One thing we learn is the results can be subjective as some seems prefer X1DPH but I almost feel I like X1DLR as much as S006 here. 

I think S007 image here will definitely benefit from reduce contrast and clarity. Usually under studio light is not worst case for camera evaluate skin tone and results tend to converge. Because the image have lots of signal (light), always good exposure. so mess around with profile and HSL might reach satisfied results. I definitely can make S007 portrait file work for my satisfaction but somehow It miss some kind of delicacy and subtle color hue for skin, lack of a touch of magic I feel I can get constantly from my S006    

 

I tried your suggestion and think it improves the 007 version.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[ZHNL]

 

I tried your suggestion and think it improves the 007 version.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

Definitely! This looks very nice. Again, thanks for sharing.

[kparseg]

I guess that color rendition is so close among all of them, especially after playing with graphic software, that we can say that all these cameras deliver very pleasant colors. I wish you had some 35mm format cameras for comparison (other than SL).

[mgrayson3]

I guess that color rendition is so close among all of them, especially after playing with graphic software, that we can say that all these cameras deliver very pleasant colors. I wish you had some 35mm format cameras for comparison (other than SL).

 

What do you think this is, getDPI? 

I actually have some Canon DSLRS, but the newest one is 13 years old. And skin tone was always tricky unless processed in Capture One.

 

--Matt

[kparseg]

What do you think this is, getDPI? 

I actually have some Canon DSLRS, but the newest one is 13 years old. And skin tone was always tricky unless processed in Capture One.

 

--Matt

Well, the color accuracy is actually very important for me. I'm color blind, not severely but still. And I can't know what skin tones are "correct" and which aren't. So, I have to rely on reviews and tests like this one to decide. Sad but there is nothing else I can do to make my own opinion. 

[RVB]

Definitely! This looks very nice. Again, thanks for sharing.

 

Looks better, previous version seemed over saturated in the red/magenta, I'd love to see how Capture one pro would work with the S if Phase One changed their mind and supported the S.

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[mgrayson3]

Last time I checked, C1 would load an S raw. Even though there are no profiles, the skin tones are very good and can be fine tuned easily. If C1 ever supports the S officially, I may have to drag myself back. Sadly, I may be too deep in the Adobe mire to move again...