aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Share #1  Posted July 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm curious how other members of the Leica Forum react to the fact that many "Leica" domain names are registered (.com, .net, .org) and used internationally - I assume without Leica's approval. I am also puzzled why Leica Camera AG and/or shareholder(s) haven't taken legal action (and pushed the media) for stopping the "diluting" of the Leica brand name.  What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Note, the Leica Forum URL domain name was recently changed to http://www.l-camera-forum.com (removing "Leica") for legal reasons.  Look at this partial list (.com, .net, .org) and it does not include country specific (.co.uk, .de,. it etc) URL domain names: LEICA-A-LA-CARTE.COM LEICA-ACADEMY.COM LEICA-AG.COM LEICA-AKADEMIE.COM LEICA-ALA-CARTE.COM LEICA-ALACARTE.COM LEICA-ALLIANCE.COM LEICA-AMERA.COM LEICA-AUCTIONEN.COM LEICA-AUCTIONS.COM LEICA-BASAR.COM LEICA-BINOCULARS.COM LEICA-BRASIL.COM LEICA-BRASILIEN.COM LEICA-BRAZIL.COM LEICA-CAEMRA.COM LEICA-CAERA.COM LEICA-CAMEA.COM LEICA-CAMER.COM LEICA-CAMERA-USA.COM LEICA-CAMERA.COM LEICA-CAMERA.NET LEICA-CAMERA.ORG LEICA-CAMERAS.COM LEICA-CAMERAUSA.COM LEICA-CAMRA.COM LEICA-CAMWRA.COM LEICA-CHILE.COM LEICA-CLASSICS.COM LEICA-CLUB.COM LEICA-CMAERA.COM LEICA-CMERA.COM LEICA-COLLECTOR.COM LEICA-CONFOCAL-MICROSCOPY.COM LEICA-CUBA.COM LEICA-DIGITAL.COM LEICA-DISCOVERMICROSCOPY.COM LEICA-DISTO.COM LEICA-EAD.COM LEICA-EM-PREPARATION.COM LEICA-ESHOP.COM LEICA-EXCHANGE.COM LEICA-FORUM.COM LEICA-FOTO.COM LEICA-FOTOGRAFIE.COM LEICA-G.COM LEICA-GALLERY.COM LEICA-GALLERY.NET LEICA-GALLERY.ORG LEICA-GEOSISTEMS.COM LEICA-GEOSYSTEM.COM LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.NET LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.ORG LEICA-GEOSYTEMS.COM LEICA-GIS.COM LEICA-GLOBAL.COM LEICA-GOESYSTEMS.COM LEICA-GPS.COM LEICA-HISTO-SOLUTIONS.COM LEICA-ICROSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-INFO.COM LEICA-INSTRUMENTS.COM LEICA-INTERNATIONAL.COM LEICA-ITALY.COM LEICA-JAPAN.NET LEICA-KONG.NET LEICA-KOREA.COM LEICA-LIGHT-MICROSCOPY.COM LEICA-LIGHTMICROSCOPY.COM LEICA-LOUPES.COM LEICA-LSG.COM LEICA-LUPE.COM LEICA-M-ALACARTE.COM LEICA-M3.COM LEICA-MATERIALS-SECTIONING.COM LEICA-MICEOSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MICOSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MICROSCOPY-IMAGING.COM LEICA-MICROSISTEMAS.COMLEICA-MICROSYSEMS.COM LEICA-MICROSYSTEM.COM LEICA-MICROSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MICROSYSTEMS.NET LEICA-MICROSYSTEMS.ORG LEICA-MICROSYSTES.COM LEICA-MICROSYSTMES.COM LEICA-MICROSYSTMS.COM LEICA-MICROSYTEMS.COM LEICA-MICROYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MICRSOYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MICRSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MIKROSYSTEME.COM LEICA-MIKROSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MIXROSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MOCROSYSTEMS.COM LEICA-MP.COM LEICA-MS.COM LEICA-NRS.COM LEICA-OBJEKTIVE.COM LEICA-OEM-OPTICS.COM LEICA-OID.COM LEICA-PASSION.COM LEICA-PERU.COM LEICA-PHOTO.COM LEICA-PROJEKTION.COM LEICA-R.COM LEICA-RUSSLAND.COM LEICA-S.COM LEICA-SEMICONATION.COM LEICA-SEMICONDUCTOR.COM LEICA-SEMICONDUCTORS.COM LEICA-SERVICE.COM LEICA-SHOP.COM LEICA-SHOP.NET LEICA-SISTEM.COM LEICA-SOCIETY.COM LEICA-SOCIETY.ORG LEICA-SPECIAL.COM LEICA-STEREOSTAR.COM LEICA-STEREOZOOM.COM LEICA-SURGICALSCOPES.COM LEICA-SURVCE.COM LEICA-USA.COM LEICA-USERS.COM LEICA-USERS.NET LEICA-USERS.ORG LEICA-VECTRONIX.COM LEICA-WORLD.COM LEICA-XAMERA.COM LEICA-XYZ.COM LEICA-YH.COM LEICA.COM LEICA.NET LEICA.ORG LEICA6983.COME-LEICA.COM ECOMIR-LEICA.COM ICP-LEICA.COM LCP-LEICA.COM NEW-LEICA.COM SLOW-LEICA.COM UR-LEICA.COM ----------  sorry if cut-and-paste text got a bit brokenup <grin>  Axel  Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 Hi aXs, Take a look here Who owns the 'Leica' name? Customers or Shareholders?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
joachimeh Posted July 13, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted July 13, 2007 I guess you give a wrong impression. Looking at the last entry (before *.com etc.) all point to Leica-owned subsidiaries. They are the legal owners of those websites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 13, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted July 13, 2007 No idea, why not ask them? Â Not sure why this is in the digital forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 13, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted July 13, 2007 There are three companies which derive from the original Ernst Leitz Wetzlar GmbH - Leica Camera AG, Leica Microsystems GmbH, Leica Geosystems AG. Â Leica Microsystems owns the Leica trademark and licences it to Leica Camera. Leica Camera owns such trade-marks at "Elmarit", "Summilux" and "Summicron". Â My own experience of this type of cyber-squatting is that it's not worth the effort to try to straighten things out unless it's really damaging. Â A variant of my company's web-site (.com instead of .co.uk) used to bring up a pornography site which wasn't helpful to my business. I've since managed to buy the .com URL from some outfit in South Korea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share #5  Posted July 13, 2007 ... looking at the last entry... before *.com... all point to Leica-owned subsidiaries... legal owners of those websites.  Thanks joachimmeh, but I did mention it is a random search and I am curious -so did a search of eBay re-sellers - and their linked URLs. No, they do not claim to be Leica-companies  ( just checked the" whois" again for a few random names - same goes).  But back to my question: What do you think? could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel  Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted July 13, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted July 13, 2007 Does this mean you are making those great motorcycles again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 13, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted July 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Eh...what's in a name ?.... I'm not a lawyer, but think : Â - If I decide to setup a camera manufacturing company, and decide to name it "Leica", I'm surely have not the right to do it, unless I register it in some "strange country" and try to sell my products in "strange countries" only (no GATT members or so....) Â - If I decide to open a camera shop, and decide to name it "Leica Photo" I can absolutely do it... if Leica co. or its importer decides I'm not a right dealer for them... so worst (or better ?) for me... I'll display new & used Leica items for sale... Leica stickers everywhere... surely there will be simply some logo ("official" "authorized"...) I'm surely forbidden to make use of. Â I think on the Net similar rules apply... BTW... I would be curious on how many graphics item - logos - fonts and so are real registered property of Leica Camera and other Leica entity (Geosystem, Micro) ... the Leica engraving on the LTMs was delicious. Ferrari's little horse and Maserati's trident are both registered trademarks, for instance... Ferrari is one of the 10 commonest name in Italy... there are number of Mr. Ferrari that incidentally sell autos of various brands... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share #8  Posted July 13, 2007 ...my own experience of this type of cyber-squatting is that it's not worth the effort to try to straighten things out unless it's really damaging...A variant of my company's web-site (.com instead of .co.uk) used to bring up a pornography site which wasn't helpful to my business. I've since managed to buy the .com URL from some outfit in South Korea...  Mark, First, I want to thank you personally for your wonderful presentation of the insides of the Leica M8 camera. For me it was surely one of the most important threads to date. Your Leica M8 presentation and commentary is an innovation in "customer/user - corporate relations". It should be published in hardcover as a book. People would then understand how important thenew Leica M8 really is. (Perhaps you have read other threads about my thoughts about a parallel event awarding people: "Innovation Inspired by Leica").  But back to my question: What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel Axel Sanders  What is the URL of your website - the one you mentioned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share #9  Posted July 13, 2007 ...does this mean you are making those great motorcycles again?  Hello stnami, I just wrote a comment to yours (on another thread) - and I do like your idea for your using a remote webcam in Berlin - connecting Australia to Berlin for a parallel event along the lines of "Challenge" events. The webcam - yes, could be mounted on one of those "great motorcycles". Thanks for the creative input!  I would like to add, that the LUG-famous "malland and stnami" dialogues are good reading - ideally the two of you should work on a project together?  Back to my question: What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel  Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joachimeh Posted July 13, 2007 Share #10  Posted July 13, 2007 Thanks joachimmeh, but I did mention it is a random search and I am curious -so did a search of eBay re-sellers - and their linked URLs. No, they do not claim to be Leica-companies ( just checked the" whois" again for a few random names - same goes).  But back to my question: What do you think? could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel  Axel Sanders   at least in Germany the label is protected. The use in public has to be granted by the owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted July 13, 2007 Share #11  Posted July 13, 2007 Leica Geosystems Leica Microsystems Leica Camera  Have a joint agreement on using the name Leica. All the others are just side shots that are not worth following up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share #12  Posted July 13, 2007 ...what's in a name... if I setup a camera shop and name it "Leica Photo" I can absolutely do it... I would be curious on how many Leica-brand graphics, logos are real registered property...  Hello Luigi Bertolotti, first, I want to tell you that I love your beach portraits of your daughters. And I also enjoyed reading your tales of romantic-adverture with a briefly owned Leica Noctilux - back at a time when you were a young man in the Dolomite mountains. But I also read your story about the tragic fate of the owner of a camera shop in your home town who commited suicide (and your emotions for having purchased from this same man, his Leica lense dating back from wartime WWII). I think eveytime you hold that lense in your hand and do photography with it, you'll remember this man who previously owned the lense.  Back to my question: Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  I understand your opinion is: " in Italy... you can absolutely do it..."  To check your theory about Italy - I googled "Leica", "Italy" and looked at the http://www.leicatime.com. The URL contains the name "Leica" and pictures on the website display leather products branded "Leicatime" with a similiar "Leica"-like logo-script - so I guess you're right about things in Italy. Thanks Luigi.  Axel  Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 13, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted July 13, 2007 When I set up my website I wanted to use some images from the then Leica site. So I emailed Leica, explained how I proposed to use them, and they emailed back to say they were more than happy for me to use the images. Perhaps Luigi did the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share #14  Posted July 13, 2007 Leica Geosystems...Leica Microsystems...Leica Camera...Have a joint agreement on using the name Leica. All the others are just side shots that are not worth following up  zapp, thank you for your input about "...side shots not worth following up...", but that is for Leica Camera AG to decide about side shots or "diluting" the brand (or are you from Leica's legal department?) <grin>  Back to my question: What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel  Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 13, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted July 13, 2007 Axel, in theory I guess the answer is no since they would not own the trademark 'Leica'. For example www.leicarepairs.com would, I expect, not be allowed. But as has been said above it may not be worth the expense or time on Leica's part to persue the cases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 13, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted July 13, 2007 Axel, it really doesn't matter what we think. This is a matter for the lawyers. Some companies protect their brand more assiduously than others. I suspect if you set up a porn website called "Leica Virgins" or similar you would get the robust response you would deserve. Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted July 13, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted July 13, 2007 Dunno Madonna did ok just misspelt it........... :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted July 13, 2007 Share #18  Posted July 13, 2007 zapp, thank you for your input about "...side shots not worth following up...", but that is for Leica Camera AG to decide about side shots or "diluting" the brand (or are you from Leica's legal department?) <grin> Back to my question: What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"?  Axel  Axel Sanders  There is no law against registering a Leica url. There is on the other hand a brand that has protected the name Leica probably worldwide. You may not use their name in combination with photography or use any of their registered logos. If you do so, they have to complain/sue you. In some countries a company can ask for the registered url. Germany for instance has no commercial url so Shell sued to get shell.de from a guy with the name shell who registered first. Law is simple. If you think it could be wrong, just don't mess with the big guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted July 13, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted July 13, 2007 What do you think? Could any private camera-user/collector, camera re-seller, eBay-reseller - just register "Leica"? Â Registering is easy - the important question are: - Can Leica (or any other brand holder) ban you from using this domain? - Which country's laws do apply? Â In Germany the law and the judgment say very clear that brands may not be used in domain names without agreement from the brand holder. Â This is the legal side - in order to clear things up you'd go to court... Â My position is somewhat special (and I won't discuss it too deep in public). - I want to cooperate with Leica as closely as possible - no matter if they are sponsors or not. - I had to find an agreement both sides can live with. - After starting to discuss about the domain they had to ask Leica Microsystems as brand holder and they don't want Leica to be used as part of a foreign domain. Â I told them about the other Leica-Domains (there are much more) but that didn't help. What they will do about it - not my business. Â Â Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 13, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted July 13, 2007 I told them about the other Leica-Domains (there are much more) but that didn't help. What they will do about it - not my business. Â Hi, Andreas, you should feel lucky because Leica didn't hire Steve Jobs as their CEO ... or they'll go after every domain name starting with a "L" ... like they're doing now with an "i". LOL Â Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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