Leica CL My struggle with factory-set functions allied to the FN and right setting-wheel buttons

[Learner]

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A longish press on the FN button produces the following list:

 

·       Self-Timer ... the factory default, according to page 23 of the manual

·       Exposure Metering

·       Exposure Compensation

·       White Balance

·       Photo File Format

·       Scene Mode

·       User Profile

·       WLAN

 

A longish press on the right setting-wheel button produces the following list:

 

·       Exposure Bracketing

·       Self-Timer ... repeated function

·       Exposure Metering ... repeated function

·       ISO ... the factory default, according to page 23, top-right

·       White Balance ... repeated function

·       Photo File Format ... repeated function

·       Scene Mode ... repeated function

·       User Profile ... repeated function

 

Question: Why are 6 functions repeated? Should not all functions be unique?

 

Now, let’s look at calling the functions:

 

a) Via the FN button

 

Method: Calling each of the FN functions after a long press on the FN button to show the list, followed by a tap on the center-button of the directional pad to confirm the desired setting, followed by another tap on the FN button to bring the desired function to the screen...

 

Only the following functions appeared:

 

·       Self-Timer

·       Exposure Compensation

·       Photo File Format

·       Scene Mode

·       WLAN

 

What happened to the other three functions?

 

 

Via the right setting-wheel button... Same method...

 

Only Exposure Bracketing showed up... What happened to the other seven functions?

 

What am I getting wrong? What am I not understanding? 

 

It would be really useful to be able to call up 16 (8+8) functions using these 2 buttons.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Learner

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[jaapv]

A longish press on the FN button produces the following list:

 

·       Self-Timer ... the factory default, according to page 23 of the manual

·       Exposure Metering

·       Exposure Compensation

·       White Balance

·       Photo File Format

·       Scene Mode

·       User Profile

·       WLAN

 

A longish press on the right setting-wheel button produces the following list:

 

·       Exposure Bracketing

·       Self-Timer ... repeated function

·       Exposure Metering ... repeated function

·       ISO ... the factory default, according to page 23, top-right

·       White Balance ... repeated function

·       Photo File Format ... repeated function

·       Scene Mode ... repeated function

·       User Profile ... repeated function

 

Question: Why are 6 functions repeated? Should not all functions be unique?

 

Now, let’s look at calling the functions:

 

a) Via the FN button

 

Method: Calling each of the FN functions after a long press on the FN button to show the list, followed by a tap on the center-button of the directional pad to confirm the desired setting, followed by another tap on the FN button to bring the desired function to the screen...

 

Only the following functions appeared:

 

·       Self-Timer

·       Exposure Compensation

·       Photo File Format

·       Scene Mode

·       WLAN

 

What happened to the other three functions?

 

 

Via the right setting-wheel button... Same method...

 

Only Exposure Bracketing showed up... What happened to the other seven functions?

 

What am I getting wrong? What am I not understanding? 

 

It would be really useful to be able to call up 16 (8+8) functions using these 2 buttons.

 

So do so. The assignment of functions is a user setting.

 

Go to menu --> main menu --> customize control;  here you can edit favourites, FN button, Right wheel button. Plus switch left and right button. For each you can make eight choices from a long list and differentiate as much as you want..

[jaapv]

To which I might add - fiddling around with a zillion of settings in the field is not going to get you better photograohs, quite the opposite - it is going to produce second-rate confused shots.

 

Use the menus and settings to make a few user profiles to suit the photographic situations you find yourself in and your preferred camera settings for those situations.

 

For instance:

 

standard  (which may well be factory default)

 

low light

 

long lens

 

action

 

etc.

 

You will only have to choose the appropriate user profile, maybe change one or two settings according to the precise situation before starting and after that you must forget about the technical infrastructure - concentrate on taking photographs ONLY.

There is just you, your subject, aperture, shutter speed and focus. NOTHING ELSE.

 

Changing settings between shots is going to cost you dearly in creativity and lose you many photographic moments.

[ramarren]

Learner: As jaapv intimates, forget what Leica set as the defaults. Once you understand how the bR, FN, and Favorites menus work, set them up to suit you. Then, concentrate on making photos ...

 

- I never use anything on the bR other than ISO, so I took everything else off.

- The dynamic things I might use and adjust often while shooting, I set onto the FN button. Like self timer, EV compensation, metering mode, etc. I set 7 things there.

- More global camera function that I want fast access to but don't change much while shooting, like WLAN, User Profile or Lens Profile, I put into the favorites menu.

 

This way I concentrate on shooting when shooting, and manage configuration when shooting needs change.

 

I have user profiles defined for my standard setup with 28 and 50 mm lens profile (I use R lenses most of the time), and one for my macro setup. The others are unused as yet.

[Learner]

Hello Jaap and RA,

 

I'd like to thank you for trying to help me and suggesting I use User Profiles.

 

I fear I am out of my depth and not sure how to proceed.

 

I've looked at pages 76 and 77 of the manual... I am not sure if pages 78 and 79 also relate to User Profiles.

 

I simply don't understand what's going on... User Profiles and memory-cards ?????

 

It would help if somebody would expand on the first bullet on page 76... "Set the desired functions in the menu" ... What exactly does this mean? What menu?

 

I wonder if somebody would be so good as to walk me / us through the construction of a user profile.

 

Is there any point in (me) starting a thread on "User Profiles for the beginner"?

 

I also wonder what proportion of CL users have developed user profiles, and how common it is for cameras to offer user profiles.

 

RA ... What is bR? I have a feeling I'm going to kick myself when you tell me.

 

Learner

Edited August 6, 2018 by Learner

[scott kirkpatrick]

bR is probably the right wheel's center button.

 

The list of things that you can change is on the five pages of menus, but you can put a screenful of selected stuff (or less, down to just one or two things) on menus that are called up by a long press of the bR, the FN button or the Menu button.  The menu button  gives you Favorites first, then the five pages of menu.  Remember, a long press lets you look at lists of things and select from them, then confirm to make it active.  A short press takes you to the one thing that is active for that button. 

 

The simplest thing to do is just shoot the camera with its default settings and auto ISO.  See if the right and left wheels are doing what you expect.  If not, use customize controls to swap them in the mode you are using so that they feel right. Then start paring down the button-related menus to just what you need.  Once you have one of those menus reduced to less than 8 items, you can add other things, but less is better.

 

We are assuming that you are using one of the CL's lenses, such as the 18, the 18-55, for which aperture and shutter speed are controlled from the camera, by rotating the left or right wheel.

 

Reading the manual while seated in a quiet place is not a bad idea.  Maybe with coffee or tea provided.

[jaapv]

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The memory card is just a place where you can save the profiles you made. Forget about it for now.

Basically, the menus are so self-explanatory that you don't even have to open the manual.

 

Go to the menu place I indicated  (which is what is meant by set in menu) and begin by setting things you don't need to "off"

Then you can set things that you do need to "on" Save by exiting the menu properly and go to user profiles --> manage profiles and "save as profile no 1 "

Then you can rename your profile

 

Go through the same procedure for Profile 2

 

etc.

 

Swapping wheels is only an afterthought Set up your profiles first.

 

Don't overthink, the CL is far simpler than other cameras.

If you are really stuck, go to your dealer and let them help you set up the camera

 

User profiles are nothing special. They are just collections of preferred user settings which you can switch to easily instead of using multiple setting changes..

 

Never buy a Sony

[jaapv]

In the end, you don't even need to jump through all these hoops to enjoy the camera. Use it out of the box for a while. The default profile is well thought out.

Only change settings when you need to, and when you have changed a number of them, save it as a profile. The user profiles are not set in stone; you can always change them again.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I'm not a big fan of profiles.  But you need to put what is working for you into profile #1, so that it will be saved if a new firmware upgrade comes along.  Leica is a bit careless with user settings when issuing new firmware, but will remind you to save profiles.  Then after upgrading, restore your profiles and everything is as it was, plus whatever improvements have been added.  Upgrades do happen.  There has been one, and the camera is less than a year old.  

[jaapv]

I like using them - preferences differ   But you are right that the OP is assigning far too much importance to them. Hence my advice to shoot the camera "out of the box", only change the things one wants to change over a few weeks and then save the personal settings as a standard profile.

 

From there one can add profiles for specific uses, like macro photography, long lenses, night photography, whatever.

 

Saved profiles are useful when one messes up things too

 

 

It beats me why anyone would want to have 16 (!) settings under the buttons. It only invites fiddling and swearing while life and photographic moments pass by.

[thighslapper]

I very rapidly came to the conclusion that too many options were a nuisance.

 

The Fn button has been reduced to a single option ...... choosing a profile.

 

I have 6 profiles set .... auto-aperture priority, auto-shutter priority, tripod (all manual), HDR, Wlan (for remote activation) and Portrait

 

Each profile has only a few ... and often 1 function assigned to the R wheel button appropriate to the profile. 

 

You need to sit down with a pencil and paper and work out what you really need and dump the rest .... permanently. 

 

Do the same with the Favourites menu. 

 

Once you have a simplified fixed configuration that you can easily remember life will become much easier ..... 

Edited August 6, 2018 by thighslapper

[jaapv]

Its not bad to have the Fn buttton to switch between EVF and LCD in my experience. It has a number of long-press functions, but I only use profile switch in that case.

[papimuzo]

[..............................................]

 

Never buy a Sony

 

        Thanks!

[ramarren]

bR is probably the right wheel's center button.

 

...

The simplest thing to do is just shoot the camera with its default settings and auto ISO. 

 

 

...

Reading the manual while seated in a quiet place is not a bad idea.  Maybe with coffee or tea provided.

 

 

Yes, pardon my shorthand. "bR" means "wheel button on the right" to me.

 

I tried doing that simplest thing but found myself changing configuration by the third exposure. ... 

I'd read the manual through twice before buying the camera and knew that it would work better for me set up differently. 

 

I've answered about 35 queries about the CL on this and other forums having to do with its configuration and use. All of my answers were drawn directly from reading the instruction manual and exercising the command/function/whatever as described in the instruction manual. In every case but maybe one or two, there was nothing ambiguous about what the manual said and the camera operated exactly as described. In the one or two cases where it wasn't particularly clear, exercising the camera after reading the manual clarified what was in the manual perfectly. 

 

My take on this is that most people simply don't ever reach for the manual, or read it in a literal manner without actually exercising what it says as they do so. Come on, the CL is not that complicated a device and it doesn't cost a penny to exercise every function with an exposure as you do so, like it would with a film camera in days of yore. One can do the entire manual in an hour or two at most... There just aren't that many different functions and commands that aren't perfectly obvious the moment you actually do the setting. 

 

But I know I'm talking into the wind here.

[Learner]

We're all different...

 

I appreciate that some people have little or no difficulty in using the camera and understanding the manual.

 

Sadly, I am not among them.

 

RA: You're not "talking into the wind" ... Your advice "to exercise every function" as you read is sound, and I shall take it.

 

For the present, I shall not attempt to immerse myself in User Profiles. Rather, I have taken jaap's advice:

 

"Go to menu --> main menu --> customize control;  here you can edit favourites, FN button, Right wheel button. Plus switch left and right button. For each you can make eight choices from a long list and differentiate as much as you want."

 

(the related page in the manual is 29 ... How clear / error-free do you find this important page?)

 

Rather than the mechanical rat-a-tat, blow-by-blow, style of Leica manuals, I prefer the chattier style of writers such as Alexander White of "White Knight Press" who have the ability to combine detail and advice, to weave a mechanical narrative if you will...

 

So much easier to understand. Such a pleasure to read... And his "manuals" contain indexes.*

 

Sadly, Alexander has decided not to write about the CL and opted for the new Leica C-Lux.

 

====

 

* I'm still working on my index for the CL ... It's in Excel format ... PM me if you would like a copy ... Include your email address.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Learner

[ramarren]

LOL! I generally dislike the chatty folksy approach to technical manuals. What always goes through my head when reading them is "Please get to the point, Author! I just want to know what the function does and the recommended use!"

 

Yup, many different ways to cut the pie...

 

Page 29 in my EN manual doesn't seem to have anything to say about control customization, it's all about display settings. Page 24 concisely lists what functions are used to edit the bR and FN buttons in the page's right column. What is poorly articulated is the concept of a short press vs a long press, which was similarly poorly articulated in the SL typ 601 Manual.

 

- Short press means "act immediately on the pre-set or factory defined function".

- Long press (on bR and FN) means "present a menu from which to set the button's pre-set function, from the configuration that you defined in the apropos 'EDIT' function in the Customize Control menu".

 

With those two concepts, the customization of the camera became completely logical and simple to me.

[Learner]

Oh, I don't think Alexander White smokes a pipe and wears slippers... HIs style is not that laid-back.

 

I suppose what he's good at is getting beyond the nuts 'n bolts and dispensing caution, advice, possibilities, advantages / disadvantages, etc.

 

===

 

Is it fair to say that p. 29 displays control-customization settings?

 

My, you do have a keen eye... Truly ... Just the sort of reader I need to look over the CL index I am working on... Would you?

Edited August 6, 2018 by Learner

[thighslapper]

I've never read the manual and have no intention of doing so ....... but I have followed Leica's progression through digital camera menus's from M9, M240, T, Q and SL, so being aware of how they think and structure things helps enormously.

 

To be honest, if I needed to read the manual then it indicates a camera is probably not for me .........

 

The only real feature that newcomers need to be aware of with the CL is the customisability and ability to get rid of the stuff you rarely or never use ...... once that is done the interface is very simple and eminently functional. 

 

I do prefer the SL's 4 buttons, wheel and joystick .... and if there are any deficiencies it is that they have tried to transfer the SL's functionality to the CL with too few buttons/controls logically arranged to actually do it as successfully. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by thighslapper

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[Learner]

Thanks RA... Yup, p. 29 ... another of my errors.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Learner

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've also used M8, M9, M240 and M10 plus the SL and CL, and Olympus and Fuji gear.  If there is a readable manual, I will give it a day of study before doing anything critical with a new camera, but after the initial information wears off, I find it useful sometimes to just sit down with a camera that I plan to use after some time away from it and run through the entire set of menus, at least at the top level.  That works for Leica and Fuji, is pretty tough for Olympus, and I am told not to try it for Sony.  All three of the M and L Leicas have a surprising amount of common stuff in their menus, and it is organized in pretty much the same way in all three.  The CL has more limited ways to control things than the SL but they are doing the same things.  The M10 leaves out a video page, and cannot control the lens aperture from the camera.  They are all just digital cameras, reduced to essentials.

 

Jono Slack (with some other lucky folks) gets his prototype Leicas well before any manual exists, so his method is to review the menus, change any defaults that don't seem to make sense, and go shooting to find out the rest.  When he writes a review, there is usually a section on how he ended up setting up the camera.  You may not agree, but it is worth reading to see what options exist.