Tailwagger Posted August 7, 2018 Share #201 Posted August 7, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Who knows? I shudder at the price increase. That will happen regardless. A year and half on, the price is up well over 10%. The price seems disconnected from any of the technology involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 7, 2018 Posted August 7, 2018 Hi Tailwagger, Take a look here Really “Is it the end of M road”?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted August 7, 2018 Share #202 Posted August 7, 2018 01af—you still don't get it. I don't get it!? Show us pictures that demonstrate your proposition. It's not "my proposition." It's how things are. Look at your own pictures in your previous post if you need evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2018 Share #203 Posted August 7, 2018 That will happen regardless. A year and half on, the price is up well over 10%. The price seems disconnected from any of the technology involved. I guess you are right. About 10 Euro per gram, in line with other M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted August 7, 2018 Share #204 Posted August 7, 2018 That’s quite reasonable, don’t you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2018 Share #205 Posted August 7, 2018 Depends on your perception of "reasonable", I would say Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 7, 2018 Share #206 Posted August 7, 2018 I guess you are right. About 10 Euro per gram, in line with other M lenses. But that makes my little Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 under priced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted August 7, 2018 Share #207 Posted August 7, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaap......... What I’d the fee for a root canal and crown? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2018 Share #208 Posted August 7, 2018 About one quarter of the average US rate. Are we OT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted August 7, 2018 Share #209 Posted August 7, 2018 About one quarter of the average US rate. Are we OT? No. Not OT. Just a little,price comparison. Suddenly an M10 doesn’t seem so expensive any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2018 Share #210 Posted August 7, 2018 Turnover is not profit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 7, 2018 Share #211 Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) Jaap......... What I’d the fee for a root canal and crown? Yes, Jaap, what financial metric do you apply to dental work? What is a root canal and crown worth - a week's labor's wages? More? I'm guessing a lot more. Edited August 7, 2018 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2018 Share #212 Posted August 8, 2018 I suppose that you are aware that it is virtually impossible to compare incomes between different countries, let alone the gross turnover before costs of a business. The average income of a dentist in our country is three times the median income. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 8, 2018 Share #213 Posted August 8, 2018 I suppose that you are aware that it is virtually impossible to compare incomes between different countries, let alone the gross turnover before costs of a business. The average income of a dentist in our country is three times the median income. It is not impossible. Get real. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2018 Share #214 Posted August 8, 2018 I couldn't survive in New York on my income, am all right over here and could live like a millionaire in Rumania. Incomparable. Now we are really OT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted August 8, 2018 Share #215 Posted August 8, 2018 Cobblers. As Jaap observes, the M cameras have "evolved" for the last 60 years. The development of the L mount and other mirrorless cameras is irrelevant - they're AF and EVF. The M is a rangefinder with wonderful manual focus lenses - why would the development of a different camera system spell the end of a completely different niche camera system which has endured for many years, and actually saved the company? Sorry, the argument really makes no sense to me at all. If true, the SL/TL2/CL systems would kill the M cameras all on its own ... As for landscape, can't agree either. What is wrong with an M camera for landscape? A quick browse of any of the photo threads here would suggest that many here are happily taking very good landscape images with their Ms. Should we tell them not to? I admit I have not read DL's posts, and have no intention to. I'm quite happy doing what apparently I'm not supposed to do - buying, using and taking landscapes with my M cameras - I can fit filters, I prefer primes for landscape, I can use a tripod ... gee, what is it I'm not supposed to be able to do? Use my SL? Sure, but that's not compulsory and for things like landscape, I prefer primes over zooms. Each to their own, I guess. Wow ....Didn t even read the original post by DL? And obviously not many of the comments on this thread . I made the comment that the M was a poor choice if landscape is your primary area of photography . This wasn t because you can t take great landscape photographs but rather that other camera kits represent a better fit . Personally I use an M system for almost everything including sports . But normally this is when I am traveling and doing 90% street and just happen to be able to shoot some tennis (for example). I have a lot of experience pounding that square peg into a round hole (making it work in spite of its limitations ). If my work was 90% landscape ..I would want more MP s and probably medium format . A Fuji or HB MF system will materially outperform the IQ of an M and for landscape I think is a better fit . If I was budget constrained I would get a Sony A73R or a nikon D850 ..again better suited to high resolution IQ. Obviously purchase decisions are made based on everything else ...brand and camera preference , cost , familiarity and available lenses ,existing equipment you already own. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted August 8, 2018 Share #216 Posted August 8, 2018 Now we are really OT. No disrespect intended to you or other members of your chosen profession, but whenever I inform my superiors that I'm exiting work for an appointment, I quip, 'Out of the office this afternoon, off to visit the medieval torture chamber.' I suspect in this day and age, there are more than a few photographers who'd regard making images with an overpriced, underspec'd, manual focus rangefinder to be a conceptually similar form of punishment. In my case, I can no more tolerate the pain of shooting with a Sony than that brought on by an abscessed tooth. Some remedies are simply worth the cost, regardless. So not all that far off topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 8, 2018 Share #217 Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) Wow ....Didn t even read the original post by DL? And obviously not many of the comments on this thread . I made the comment that the M was a poor choice if landscape is your primary area of photography . This wasn t because you can t take great landscape photographs but rather that other camera kits represent a better fit . Personally I use an M system for almost everything including sports . But normally this is when I am traveling and doing 90% street and just happen to be able to shoot some tennis (for example). I have a lot of experience pounding that square peg into a round hole (making it work in spite of its limitations ). If my work was 90% landscape ..I would want more MP s and probably medium format . A Fuji or HB MF system will materially outperform the IQ of an M and for landscape I think is a better fit . If I was budget constrained I would get a Sony A73R or a nikon D850 ..again better suited to high resolution IQ. Obviously purchase decisions are made based on everything else ...brand and camera preference , cost , familiarity and available lenses ,existing equipment you already own. Read DL? No. Nor Rockwell, nor Reid for the reasons outlined. This forum is a far better resource. I did read your post, and I hold to the view that 24MP is plenty for landscape, printed to reasonable viewing limits. Sorry if my response was a little ... strong. I hate it when people tell me what I can and can't do with my cameras. Sure, some equipment is better for some things than for others - the M system is naturally limited (for me) in the 28-75 range, and there are things where AF is useful. But for landscape? I find my 18MP Monchrom ideal (better than the SL, because I prefer B&W for landscape). Each to their own. Edited August 8, 2018 by IkarusJohn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 8, 2018 Share #218 Posted August 8, 2018 I couldn't survive in New York on my income, am all right over here and could live like a millionaire in Rumania. Incomparable. Now we are really OT. I have never been able to rationalize two-days pay for one hour in the dentist's chair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 8, 2018 Share #219 Posted August 8, 2018 I guess you are right. About 10 Euro per gram, in line with other M lenses. Also about in line with Denver marijuana prices. Choose your drug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 8, 2018 Share #220 Posted August 8, 2018 I don't get it!? It's not "my proposition." It's how things are. Look at your own pictures in your previous post if you need evidence. So how do three pictures all taken on the same sensor show what improvement (if any) I would get with a "better" sensor. They show that 24 Mpixels are doing quite well - they don't show that 30 or 40 or 50 Mpixels would do any better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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