hector_jorge Posted June 30, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 30, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Until now I used the Apple Photos program. Recently I bought a Leica CL, a beautiful camera, so I will like to improve my edition skills with a more advanced edition program. I will like an easy one to use to keep the pictures in different tematic folders and with the possibility of editing them (JPG and Raw). I saw not too good comments about Lightroom, specially, the last version, and I feel that Photoshop is a little bit more than that I need. Is perhaps PS Elements the answer? Many thanks in advance for your answers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 Hi hector_jorge, Take a look here Advise about a digital post processing system. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tgdinamo Posted June 30, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 30, 2018 Take a look at DxO PhotoLab. I've been very happy using it with Leica Q and D-Lux 109 (and before I used older DxO programs with my Canon DSLR's). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genn Posted June 30, 2018 Share #3 Posted June 30, 2018 Please, check if Leica CL is supported by DxO PhotoLab. Not all combinations of Leica lenses and cameras are supported. Capture One Pro is another good system. Current version of Lightroom Classic is good enough. Also, there is another version of Lightroom CC, that is cloud based and can be used on Web with any pc, iPhone, iPad, Android and Apple TV. CC version is simple for start. Not so many features of Classic are supported. One again, I like the current Lr versions. Probably I should stop of experiments and stick to the Lr/Ps family. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 30, 2018 Share #4 Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) I use LR CC Classic and PS, backed up by the Nik suite. You'll find strong adherents of them and Capture One here, with smaller numbers going for other systems. I've had LR since v3 and I'm used to it - I find it intuitive and it does what I want: managing images in a catalogue based on my own file structure, converting raw and other image editing. There's lots of online support from Adobe forums and third parties. I found PS a steep learning curve, but it was worth it. I use PS for those edits which I can't do in LR. I suspect that if I'd started out with Capture One, I would be equally happy with it - I've heard nothing about its functionality that would stop me using it, but the one time i tried a trial version I couldn't get on with the interface. I used PS Elements when I first got into digital photography, but until I started using LR I didn't understand the potential of post processing. Once I decided I wanted to be a 'real' photographer, with proper control over raw conversion, colour and producing the final product (for online viewing, print, book etc) I realised that with PS Elements and similarly limited packages I would only be a half baked photographer . Edited June 30, 2018 by LocalHero1953 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 30, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 30, 2018 I have the bouncing Lr icon of death here this morning. It's just updated to the latest version of Classic CC Desktop and now it won't open. Each update just gets worse and worse these days. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 30, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 30, 2018 I have the bouncing Lr icon of death here this morning. It's just updated to the latest version of Classic CC Desktop and now it won't open. Each update just gets worse and worse these days. Are you Windows or Mac, Andy? I have no problems with 7.3 on Windows, but I may wait a moment before updating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 30, 2018 Share #7 Posted June 30, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have used Macs since 1991 and am currently running the latest version of OSX. A reboot sorted the problem, but the inability to copy and paste adjustments in LR remains. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 1, 2018 Share #8 Posted July 1, 2018 I saw not too good comments about Lightroom, specially, the last version, and I feel that Photoshop is a little bit more than that I need. Is perhaps PS Elements the answer? Continue with your investigations into Lightroom and Elements. The key thing with any editing software is how popular it is overall, that way you know it works for a lot of photographers so will probably also work for you, and you will have a lot of people able to advise on problems if you have any. Do not ignore your PC either, you need one with plenty of RAM and a good processor, and also avoid anything 'weird' such as a laptop or yesterdays fashion like a Mac. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 1, 2018 Share #9 Posted July 1, 2018 No need to turn this into a Win vs Mac thing, thanks. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted July 1, 2018 Share #10 Posted July 1, 2018 FWIW I've had no problems with the latest version of Lightroom Classic CC or previous versions for that matter. I use a recent iMac with loads of memory, SSD storage and the latest version of the operating system. LR does everything I ask of it in a speedy manner. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2018 Share #11 Posted July 1, 2018 Continue with your investigations into Lightroom and Elements. The key thing with any editing software is how popular it is overall, that way you know it works for a lot of photographers so will probably also work for you, and you will have a lot of people able to advise on problems if you have any. Do not ignore your PC either, you need one with plenty of RAM and a good processor, and also avoid anything 'weird' such as a laptop or yesterdays fashion like a Mac. The right word - fashion. It has nothing to do with performance or functionality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 1, 2018 Share #12 Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) FWIW I've had no problems with the latest version of Lightroom Classic CC or previous versions for that matter.+1 People tend to like the software that they spend time to learn and gain comfort. Pick one that offers the key functionality you need and take advantage of many online and other learning resources. When considering LR, don’t be confused by the CC terminology. LR Classic CC (not LR CC) offers the same functionality as the earlier standalone versions, and without need for cloud storage; the difference is the subscription model. For 10 bucks a month, one can get both LR CC versions as well as PS. I use LR Classic CC for most of my work, supplemented by ImagePrint for printing needs. Jeff Edited July 1, 2018 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 1, 2018 Share #13 Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Until now I used the Apple Photos program. Recently I bought a Leica CL, a beautiful camera, so I will like to improve my edition skills with a more advanced edition program. I will like an easy one to use to keep the pictures in different tematic folders and with the possibility of editing them (JPG and Raw). I saw not too good comments about Lightroom, specially, the last version, and I feel that Photoshop is a little bit more than that I need. Is perhaps PS Elements the answer? Many thanks in advance for your answers. I've been using Lightroom since it was released in 2007. I've just updated my installation of Lightroom v6 to the latest (and last) v6 perpetual license edition (v6.14) in order to support the CL. I haven't seen any problems using it on macOS Sierra v10.12.6, and am testing it on macOS High Sierra v11 now. By and large, Lightroom works the way I like to work and seems easy to understand. However, I'm not so happy about Adobe's constant push in the last couple of years to make me subscribe to their CC and cloud-based solutions. I have Photoshop as well, an older version (v5.1), but almost never use it anymore: It's capabilities are generally speaking much more than I have any need or desire for nowadays. I can't foretell the future, but I feel I'm done with buying new Adobe products at this point in time because I see little added value for my needs in using subscription-based software. My photography doesn't change with the bleeding edge so much or so often that I constantly need new features, new camera support, and all that stuff. When what I have stops working, I'll get more serious about buying new software that works for me. There are several other choices. I don't know them all, but Iridient Developer, Luminar, and Tonality Pro are all very capable editors that I've got installed and have used, lightly. Capture One has a big reputation but I don't find I like working with it at all. Luminar is the one I will likely put my time into learning and becoming more proficient with; it recognizes all my various cameras' raw format files (including the CL, which I don't have yet, but have tested for using available sample raw files) and, so far, I like the way it works and the results it produces. I also have the Apple Photos app, of course, and just tested it: It does a very nice job editing the CL raw files as well. It may not be a professional tool allowing editing on many files simultaneously, but for casual editing work it seems to do a fine job. I've also tested CL files on the iPad Pro using Apple's Photos app, PhotoRAW, Affinity Pro, and a few others. They all do a very nice job. (To all of those sneering at laptops, Apple, iPads, etc etc, feh on you. I don't care what you think. ) So, Hector ... My advice to you is to use what you're familiar with FIRST and experiment with it thoroughly so that you understand what it can do and what its limitations are with respect to your photography and desires. THEN, look at the other apps that are available to see whether they have a workflow that is more desirable for your needs, capabilities that you are missing that you need, and all that stuff. Depending upon your needs and your skills, there is often absolutely no reason to buy anything other than what you already have. In the end, what software you use—as well as what type of computing device, what operating system, etc etc—makes no difference whatsoever as long as you get the results you want in your photographs. Edited July 1, 2018 by ramarren 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hector_jorge Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted July 2, 2018 I've been using Lightroom since it was released in 2007. I've just updated my installation of Lightroom v6 to the latest (and last) v6 perpetual license edition (v6.14) in order to support the CL. I haven't seen any problems using it on macOS Sierra v10.12.6, and am testing it on macOS High Sierra v11 now. By and large, Lightroom works the way I like to work and seems easy to understand. However, I'm not so happy about Adobe's constant push in the last couple of years to make me subscribe to their CC and cloud-based solutions. I have Photoshop as well, an older version (v5.1), but almost never use it anymore: It's capabilities are generally speaking much more than I have any need or desire for nowadays. I can't foretell the future, but I feel I'm done with buying new Adobe products at this point in time because I see little added value for my needs in using subscription-based software. My photography doesn't change with the bleeding edge so much or so often that I constantly need new features, new camera support, and all that stuff. When what I have stops working, I'll get more serious about buying new software that works for me. There are several other choices. I don't know them all, but Iridient Developer, Luminar, and Tonality Pro are all very capable editors that I've got installed and have used, lightly. Capture One has a big reputation but I don't find I like working with it at all. Luminar is the one I will likely put my time into learning and becoming more proficient with; it recognizes all my various cameras' raw format files (including the CL, which I don't have yet, but have tested for using available sample raw files) and, so far, I like the way it works and the results it produces. I also have the Apple Photos app, of course, and just tested it: It does a very nice job editing the CL raw files as well. It may not be a professional tool allowing editing on many files simultaneously, but for casual editing work it seems to do a fine job. I've also tested CL files on the iPad Pro using Apple's Photos app, PhotoRAW, Affinity Pro, and a few others. They all do a very nice job. (To all of those sneering at laptops, Apple, iPads, etc etc, feh on you. I don't care what you think. ) So, Hector ... My advice to you is to use what you're familiar with FIRST and experiment with it thoroughly so that you understand what it can do and what its limitations are with respect to your photography and desires. THEN, look at the other apps that are available to see whether they have a workflow that is more desirable for your needs, capabilities that you are missing that you need, and all that stuff. Depending upon your needs and your skills, there is often absolutely no reason to buy anything other than what you already have. In the end, what software you use—as well as what type of computing device, what operating system, etc etc—makes no difference whatsoever as long as you get the results you want in your photographs. Many thanks for your advise. I don´t like to spend money every month for a software, I prefer to pay only one time for it and forget the payment for the future. I will consider to remain a Photos user, at least for a time, after that, if I feel really the necessity of a more advanced editor, I will consider a change. A last question: Photos allow the raw processing files? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 2, 2018 Share #15 Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) Many thanks for your advise. I don´t like to spend money every month for a software, I prefer to pay only one time for it and forget the payment for the future. I will consider to remain a Photos user, at least for a time, after that, if I feel really the necessity of a more advanced editor, I will consider a change. A last question: Photos allow the raw processing files? No. At least, it won't open DNG files on my iMac. I mean yes. It will. Grr. It will load them into an iPad. It will complain about duplicates if you then try to open a DNG on iMac (photos held in the iCloud) which was already loaded via iPad. But if you delete the pic from Photos and then try to open the DNG in Photos on iMac it doesn't. This is perhaps the main problem with Photos. They have tried to make it so simple that it is impossible to know what it's doing. Edited July 2, 2018 by Exodies Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 3, 2018 Share #16 Posted July 3, 2018 Many thanks for your advise. I don´t like to spend money every month for a software, I prefer to pay only one time for it and forget the payment for the future. I will consider to remain a Photos user, at least for a time, after that, if I feel really the necessity of a more advanced editor, I will consider a change. A last question: Photos allow the raw processing files? Photos on macOS and iOS opens any raw files that are from cameras in the supported list (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht207972 for the latest, currently supported cameras for the latest iOS and macOS Raw Camera compatibility). Unlike Lightroom and other Adobe software, it will not open raw files (DNG or otherwise) that it does not have a camera calibration profile for, and it will not open a linear-representation DNG file at all. But the latest revisions of the Raw Camera framework have the Leica CL (and all the other Leica digital cameras, as far as I am aware) included in the supported camera list. No. At least, it won't open DNG files on my iMac. I mean yes. It will. Grr. It will load them into an iPad. It will complain about duplicates if you then try to open a DNG on iMac (photos held in the iCloud) which was already loaded via iPad. But if you delete the pic from Photos and then try to open the DNG in Photos on iMac it doesn't. This is perhaps the main problem with Photos. They have tried to make it so simple that it is impossible to know what it's doing. I don't use the Photos-iCloud stream so I can't easily tell what the odd behavior you're seeing is, but it is almost certainly a matter of some problem with the configuration of your iOS, Photos-iCloud, and macOS systems. This screen shot shows Photos with a CL DNG raw file that I opened on my system to test: 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted July 3, 2018 Share #17 Posted July 3, 2018 Check on Amazon and ebay for v5 or older versions of LR. They are stable and fast. And you will be not hosed monthly. If you want to keep images in order and edit them fast and simple, it is LR. If you want to delete parts of images - PS. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 3, 2018 Share #18 Posted July 3, 2018 Check on Amazon and ebay for v5 or older versions of LR. They are stable and fast. And you will be not hosed monthly. If you want to keep images in order and edit them fast and simple, it is LR. If you want to delete parts of images - PS. Lightroom 5 does not have the appropriate camera calibration profiles for a Leica CL camera and will not render the colors correctly. You need Lightroom v6.14 as a minimum for Leica CL support. See https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cameras.html for details. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genn Posted July 4, 2018 Share #19 Posted July 4, 2018 I don´t like to spend money every month for a software, I prefer to pay only one time for it and forget the payment for the future. I do not think - it is a good judgement. Both Adobe and other developers on the rush to charge a photographer every year for a new version. Do not forget, that OsX is updated on annual basis - so new software have to comply with new OsX version. Adobe is subscribed on annual basis and charged monthly. Photographer's plan is USD 120 per year, and my last version of Photoshop was about $600 (i.e. 5 years subscription). Today I get Photoshop, Bridge, Lightroom and a baby Lightroom for $10 monthly plus 20 GB of cloud space. I'm adopting to situation, when I'll perform selection process on iPad or iPhone, and later develop only few images within Bridge+Photoshop. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hector_jorge Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share #20 Posted July 4, 2018 Check on Amazon and ebay for v5 or older versions of LR. They are stable and fast. And you will be not hosed monthly. If you want to keep images in order and edit them fast and simple, it is LR. If you want to delete parts of images - PS. To delete parts of images may be sometimes useful but I don´t need to do that frequently, so I can forget it. BTW, is it possible to do that in Photos or in LR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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