wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am considering adding one of those refugees from the Ugly Bug Ball, an M5 to my collection. Apart from the usual things which apply to all second hand M purchases, given the additional complications of the light metering, what extra checks should I make on an M5? There are obvious things like checking the battery compartment to see if a mercury cell has ever leaked in there and that the metering is working (has it been re-calibrated to alkaline batteries). What are the main differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 cameras? Is it just the third strap lug and the stronger detent spring on the shutter speed dial? Finally will any of the winders/motors work with the M5? I have both an M4-2 winder and the later Motor-M. I am guessing not due to the differences in the base plate. Was there ever a winder made for the M5? My right thumb no longer works properly due to old injuries and arthritis and I much prefer using motor wind film cameras, which is why I have the two M winders and a MOOLY for my IIIa. I have read both my Laney and van Hasebroeck but their information on the M5 is quite limited. Like most old film cameras, Leica M5's are very cheap in France at present. Edited June 24, 2018 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here M5 what to look for and what to avoid. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
harryzet Posted June 24, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 24, 2018 no motor or winder 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macdonald Posted June 24, 2018 Share #3 Posted June 24, 2018 I would look for first-class looks (then the camera was treated well or used little) and if a CLA is not detectable, invest in one because of resinous oils and fats. You can also use a battery adapter to keep the camera in its original state. Mine is very accurate. http://www.buhla.de/Foto/batt-adapt-US.pdf 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 24, 2018 Share #4 Posted June 24, 2018 You might find this useful. http://macfilos.com/photo/2016/4/26/leica-m5-small-battery-company-wein-cell-battery-solutions?rq=Leica%20M5 William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted June 24, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 24, 2018 I really enjoy my M5, but as the link above notes the shutter button has a longer stroke than other Leica models, as it gradually swings the meter cell arm out of the way as it is depressed. (Unlike the CL where the the meter cell arm snaps down, the M5 is more gentle on the cell arm.) The button has to FULLY depress to fire the shutter. So the M5 is the only camera where I use a small soft release button on the shutter. With that addition it is a great shooter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted June 24, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Günter Osterloh in "Leica M - Hohe Schule der Kleinbildfotografie" (4th ed. 1996) has a short general section on the Leica M5 and a lengthy treatise on the exposure metering of that camera, but makes no mention of a motor/ winder accessory. The chapter on accessories also makes no mention of any motor suitable for M5, although it gives detailed compatability information for the other models. The book unfortunately does not give any hint on differences between Mk1 and Mk2 either. Kind regards Mathias Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 24, 2018 by schattenundlicht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285885-m5-what-to-look-for-and-what-to-avoid/?do=findComment&comment=3542794'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted June 24, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would look for first-class looks (then the camera was treated well or used little) and if a CLA is not detectable, invest in one because of resinous oils and fats. You can also use a battery adapter to keep the camera in its original state. Mine is very accurate. http://www.buhla.de/Foto/batt-adapt-US.pdf I have four Leicas (IIIa, IIIg, Ig and M4-P) going to Alan Starkie for CLA plus a few other minor things in the autumn, so if I do buy an M5, what's one more I am not keen on the regulated battery adapters as I have not found them at all reliable. Since mercury cells became unobtainable in the late 1990's I have had various of these for Minox cameras, Rollei Cameras, my Leica CL and MR-4 Leicameters. I think I have replaced every one I have bought from erratic behaviour, where the voltage stabilisation reduces the voltage too much, not at all or just goes open circuit and they are not cheap. I have now had all my Leicameters and my Minox C re-calibrated to modern 625 or 4AG12 alkaline/silver cells, the last MR-4 one just a week or so ago by George Milton of Quality Light Metrics in Hollywood, CA. I was trying to use my film CL yesterday, which had a CLA just 18 months ago, concentrating on the meter and rangefinder and the metering is all over the place and frequently not working at all. I think this is yet another failing MR-9 regulated battery PX625 replacer. I should have asked for it to be re-calibrated to an alkaline battery. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted June 24, 2018 Share #8 Posted June 24, 2018 i just picked up a beautiful 3-LUG M5 last week really like shooting with it, came with a Leitz leather case and leather strap Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285885-m5-what-to-look-for-and-what-to-avoid/?do=findComment&comment=3542811'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted June 24, 2018 You might find this useful. http://macfilos.com/photo/2016/4/26/leica-m5-small-battery-company-wein-cell-battery-solutions?rq=Leica%20M5 William William, many thanks for the link to that article. It has made me think again about the wisdom of getting an M5. I too have quite small hands and they are far from in the best state as well, from old injuries and arthritis. I suspect I too would have difficulty holding an M5. I was really struggling at an evening event last week, using my M4-P with M4-2 winder and 0.95 Noctilux but flash was not permitted, so little choice. You can see from the photo below that this is fair old chunk of photo gear and even with a Thumbie on the back, one handed operation is pretty much out. It would have been far better if Leica had added a grip on the top left hand side (looking at the camera) of the winder, like they did on the later Motor-M. I am wondering if I could get someone to alter the Winder to add a grip. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285885-m5-what-to-look-for-and-what-to-avoid/?do=findComment&comment=3542813'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted June 24, 2018 Share #10 Posted June 24, 2018 The M5 isn't a lot larger than the M4 (especially if the M4 has and MR4 attached), but the squared shape makes it feel larger. It feels similar to the Canon 7s of the late 1960s, where Canon was also trying to see if an RF could compete with SLRs. Interesting that the Canon 7s used an external CdS meter. but I've read that there is a Canon prototype of the proposed next model that had a TTL meter, which was before the M5 by a few years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 24, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 24, 2018 It would have been far better if Leica had added a grip on the top left hand side (looking at the camera) of the winder, like they did on the later Motor-M. I am wondering if I could get someone to alter the Winder to add a grip. I thought that the Motor M worked on the M4-P? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted June 24, 2018 I thought that the Motor M worked on the M4-P? Paul, It does in theory but my Motor-M sits on my M7, with colour reversal (Precisa 100 or Provia 400) in it. I often have two film M's with me and at the moment I am using Fomapan B&W 200 in my M4-P. I have to admit to rather liking the click-whirr-groan-whack of the M4-2 Winder. In the winder noise stakes it comes close behind my Combat Graflex 70mm camera. I tried to fit my M7 bottom plate on the M4-P and it was an exceedingly tight fit and the latch on the bottom has rather marked the striker plate on the M4-P, so I have not tried the Motor-M on the M4-P. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 24, 2018 Share #13 Posted June 24, 2018 According to Laney, the Motor M works with the M4-2 and the M4-P, but the Winder M does not. From my experience my early M4-2 winder works well with both my M4-2 and my M4-P. I don't use it very often, but it is a wonderful 'Heath Robinson' type device. As for the handling of the M5, I don't like its shape and size in my small hands. I generally don't like the sharp Leica rewind lever under my right hand. I don't have issues with the M2 button rewind, however. With the M5, the sharp rewind lever really cuts into my fingers when gripping the camera making it most unpleasant to use. I believe that this arises from the size and shape of the camera and also the size and shape of my hands. So, this may not arise for all users. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted June 24, 2018 Share #14 Posted June 24, 2018 I have 7 M5's, 4 black and 3 chrome. The chrome were much smaller produdction, 11000 vs 23000. The handling has been discussed above, and it seems to me the black chrome does not wear well and looks much worse than worn black paint cameras. So unless the black finish is near new, I would decline. maybe just a personal preference. The silver chrome tolerates wear better. I have seen cases where the silver finish background inside the viewfinder where the meter needle operates becomes dim, so I check for that. Perhaps a silvered glass that can oxidize. A repair man can say more, but you can just check by looking for good brightness. It is possible to damage the meter sensor by inserting and collapsing some lenses. Leitz had lots of instruction on the proper use of collapsible lenses, maybe just best to avoid them. The 50th 1975 anniversary models are limited, especially chrome. Some collectors value them more, some could care less. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 24, 2018 Share #15 Posted June 24, 2018 I have 7 M5's, 4 black and 3 chrome. The chrome were much smaller produdction, 11000 vs 23000. The handling has been discussed above, and it seems to me the black chrome does not wear well and looks much worse than worn black paint cameras. So unless the black finish is near new, I would decline. maybe just a personal preference. The silver chrome tolerates wear better. I have seen cases where the silver finish background inside the viewfinder where the meter needle operates becomes dim, so I check for that. Perhaps a silvered glass that can oxidize. A repair man can say more, but you can just check by looking for good brightness. It is possible to damage the meter sensor by inserting and collapsing some lenses. Leitz had lots of instruction on the proper use of collapsible lenses, maybe just best to avoid them. The 50th 1975 anniversary models are limited, especially chrome. Some collectors value them more, some could care less. My chrome 3 lug model came with a chrome 50mm f 2.8 Elmar with a rubber band around it to stop it from collapsing and damaging the metering 'lollipop stick'. I generally use the M5 with rigid lenses to avoid any issues. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted June 24, 2018 I have been warned by someone else about fading of the framelines at their top on M5 cameras. After reading what everyone has said and William's article, I am actually leaning more towards an M6 non TTL. That would mean I could use my Motor-M with it or buy another Motor-M (they are not expensive). I suspect the lack of a motor drive would mean that any M5 I bought would quickly become a shelf queen and I like all my Leicas to get some exercise. I would avoid the M6-TTL due to the absence of any spare TTL circuit boards and the fragility of those circuit boards. The non-TTL M6, with its very simple circuitry is I understand, fully repairable. I part exchanged my non-TTL M6 back in late 2002 to get a horribly unreliable M7 and really regretted it. Luckily my present M7 seems problem free. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) I too have quite small hands and they are far from in the best state as well, from old injuries and arthritis. I think of you and others regarding such issues. My once clever inventive building talent is evaporating. Every evening before sleep I try to imagine add-ons that can help with disabilities of the hands. No joy so far. But, Wilson, keep on and if you find a clue please pass it on to the rest of us. It is laughable, beside focus levers and tabs all I have so far is a wrist brace with splint for the thumb, and elastic bands! Keep the faith. Edited June 24, 2018 by pico 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #18 Posted June 24, 2018 I think of you and others regarding such issues. My once clever inventive building talent is evaporating. Every evening before sleep I try to imagine add-ons that can help with disabilities of the hands. No joy so far. But, Wilson, keep on and if you find a clue please pass it on to the rest of us. It is laughable, beside focus levers and tabs all I have so far is a wrist brace with splint for the thumb, and elastic bands! Keep the faith. Jac, Marry a physiotherapist like I did and have another one for a daughter is the best answer I have. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2018 Share #19 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Jac, Marry a physiotherapist like I did and have another one for a daughter is the best answer I have. Wilson Oh, Dear Wilson, I am happy for you. We know that not all innovation comes from specialists. I hope your familial relations can help us in regard to the subject. Take care, Sir. Edited June 24, 2018 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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