pgk Posted June 20, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) What's the story behind this M4 serial number: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/gorringes/catalogue-id-srgo10096/lot-d6d53391-d597-4998-bed9-a8fd00a64fbf? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Hi pgk, Take a look here M4 with 'odd' serial number. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pedaes Posted June 20, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 20, 2018 Is it like "Attrape" as in dummy/display camera? With a bid that high plus premium I hope buyer knows what they are bidding on - and Auctioner knows what he is selling. If you are interested I would contact them to check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted June 20, 2018 If you are interested ..... No, not me. I was simply intrigued by the serial number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2018 Share #4 Posted June 25, 2018 Having seen who is selling it, I doubt you would get any sensible information from them. I had a major row with them a few years ago when they were trying to sell two Russian polished brass fakes as real Luxus Leicas. They persisted even after I had pointed out things like the absence of an RF roller and cable release hole in the middle of the shutter release. They knew "best". Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 25, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 25, 2018 An attrape Leica #307A was sold on the Bay last year for $1,495. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 25, 2018 Seems about as sensible to me as buying a wooden Rolls Royce. The ultimate in a fondler's Leica as that is all you can do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted June 25, 2018 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having seen who is selling it, I doubt you would get any sensible information from them. I had a major row with them a few years ago when they were trying to sell two Russian polished brass fakes as real Luxus Leicas. They persisted even after I had pointed out things like the absence of an RF roller and cable release hole in the middle of the shutter release. They knew "best". Wilson I did e-mail them for the hell of it and they have changed description to claim it is a fully working camera fitted with the top plate off a dummy (Attrape) camera. And that makes it really desirable because.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 25, 2018 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2018 I did e-mail them for the hell of it and they have changed description to claim it is a fully working camera fitted with the top plate off a dummy (Attrape) camera. And that makes it really desirable because.... Hah! I laughed out loud. Thanks for doing that. WTF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2018 Brilliant! The first Atrappe fake ever. You have to admire their creativity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 26, 2018 Share #10 Posted June 26, 2018 Sold for £1200 this morning. I'm not sure what they were expecting, but this is not much more than a good condition M4 + 50mm Summicron would fetch. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 26, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 26, 2018 There is an ugly chip in the chrome of the shutter release, which would knock probably £100 off the value, so say £500 for a regular chrome M4 less the damage. A Summicron III probably around £700 (a bit less if a Canadian one) in that condition. Now the buyer will have paid £1200 plus Gorringes 21% commission + VAT = £1502 (or 3% more if bid over the internet) against my valuation of £1100, so a bit on the heavy side just for a weird serial number. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 26, 2018 Share #12 Posted June 26, 2018 There is an ugly chip in the chrome of the shutter release, which would knock probably £100 off the value, so say £500 for a regular chrome M4 less the damage. A Summicron III probably around £700 (a bit less if a Canadian one) in that condition. Now the buyer will have paid £1200 plus Gorringes 21% commission + VAT = £1502 (or 3% more if bid over the internet) against my valuation of £1100, so a bit on the heavy side just for a weird serial number. Wilson Would that you could calculate the value of anything by doing such logical sums. In an auction process there many factors which determine the final price , such as the number of bidders and the objectives of the various bidders. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted June 26, 2018 Interesting. A concoction M4 of unknown provenance and vintage sells at £1.5k which is pretty impressive to say the least. I could see a fairly decent price being paid with an explanation attached to the camera such as 'damaged top plate of 1967 Leica s/n xxxxxxx which was replaced utilising an Atrappe top plate' and I'd have expected the price to be a bit below an M4 & 50 Summicron, but this does seem to be a highish price to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted June 26, 2018 Share #14 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) As side note, even if the "Attrape Summicron" has a filter on it, it's a real "Attrape" with only front "non working one lens". Side note two : all Attrape Summicron has been set always to fix f/5.6 . Like this with Dummy M6: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/LEITZ-LEICA-M6-DUMMY-ATTRAPE-WITH-DUMMY-SUMMICRON-RARE/332506700268?hash=item4d6af199ec:g:wT0AAOSwGYVXC6kE Edited June 26, 2018 by a.noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 26, 2018 Share #15 Posted June 26, 2018 Would that you could calculate the value of anything by doing such logical sums. In an auction process there many factors which determine the final price , such as the number of bidders and the objectives of the various bidders. William William, I always do mental calculations like that before I enter an auction and I am very disciplined about not getting carried away with auction fever and paying more than something is worth. On eBay I put in the price I am willing to pay on eSnipe at a fairly early stage, so if I get it fine and if I don't, there will always be another one coming along at some point. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 26, 2018 Share #16 Posted June 26, 2018 William, I always do mental calculations like that before I enter an auction and I am very disciplined about not getting carried away with auction fever and paying more than something is worth. On eBay I put in the price I am willing to pay on eSnipe at a fairly early stage, so if I get it fine and if I don't, there will always be another one coming along at some point. Wilson I do more or less the same thing and I have pulled out of more auctions than I have won, but a lot of experience has taught me not to expect a clearly worked out basis for auction outcomes. There is no accounting for human motivation or for what will happen when two or more bidders enter an auction. It the value was always obvious there would be no point in holding an auction. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 26, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 26, 2018 I'm just waiting for the buyer to appear on this forum enquiring whether he was lucky enough to acquire a prototype... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted June 27, 2018 Share #18 Posted June 27, 2018 I prefer a rebuild one include the Summicron by a Leitz employee, got twenty years ago : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285769-m4-with-odd-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=3544694'>More sharing options...
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