M10 Rangefinder focus vs. M240

[dkmoore]

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After 2 M10s and 3+ M240s I believe there is another difference with the focus patch in the M10 that hasn't been discussed (I think anyway)

 

When focusing on an object the focus patch has a very, very narrow point of absolute focus. What I mean by that is that as you drag the focus tab ever so slightly there is a millimeter in front and behind optimal focus and it is very sensitive. The small points outside of absolute focus still show a mostly in focus image in the focus patch. 

 

On the M240, I do not notice this phenomenon at all. The focus patch more easily lights up in the M240 when the center of the patch is focused on the subject. There isn't that millimeter (making up the measurement) of absolute focus versus 98% focus (again making up numbers to hopefully explain what I am talking about).

 

This isn't necessarily an issue but more an observation that I was curious if others have experienced? It also seems to me that the M10 finder is more difficult to focus in bright sunlight than my M240. I find myself thinking often that I prefer the M240 viewfinder, even if its less accurate.

 

Am I crazy here? Does anyone else prefer the M240 viewfinder? I am assuming this has to do with the magnification. 

 

BTW, this is not an I hate my M10 thread as I love my M10     <3      

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[bocaburger]

I used an M10 on loan, along with my M240 and really didn't notice any difference in the viewfinders or rangefinders in terms of clarity or accuracy.  Definitely nothing that would have compelled me to switch.  Ditto between my former M9 and the M240.  What compelled me to switch was mainly the quieter shutter recharge, and the promise of a non-corroding sensor (at the time Leica was simply replacing bad ones with new ones of the same design, which possibly could later go bad).  The only really compelling switch for me was from M8 to M9 (crop factor, IR filters). 

 

So I wouldn't say I prefer the M240 viewfinder, it's just that I don't prefer the M10's.  What I like about the M10 is it's a little thinner and has a frame preview, but I got so used to the M240 those aren't compelling enough for me to switch.  The analog ISO dial on the M10 is a non-starter for me as I rarely change ISO, and if I do, a button and menu are fine.   The M240 has a larger capacity battery, and can use cheaper Olympus versions of the EVF...of which I have several (batteries and EVF's), and would have needed to replace at significant additional cost if I were to get an M10 (especially as I prefer two bodies).  

[adan]

I don't see a "spacial" difference as you describe. The M10 secondary RF image seems to be slightly darker or less contrasty, making it slightly harder to distinguish the two images sometimes - enough so that I'm prompted to check to see if I have a fingerprint on the small RF window. But that's not compared to an M240 (which I've never owned) but to my M9 - although I think the M9/M240 finders are basically identical, optically. The M10 has a completely new design, and maybe some "flare tendency" crept in.

 

And it could just be changes with age (mine, not the camera's) - my M9 is not quite as easy to focus as it was when I was 9 years younger.

 

That last fractional distance between "almost in focus" and "in focus" is always a bit tricky - and can vary depending on the direction one normally focuses. From infinity "in" (left to right) or from 0.7 meters "out" (right to left).

 

Regardless, my M10 still focuses a 135 more reliably than my M9.

[dkmoore]

I don't see a "spacial" difference as you describe. The M10 secondary RF image seems to be slightly darker or less contrasty, making it slightly harder to distinguish the two images sometimes - enough so that I'm prompted to check to see if I have a fingerprint on the small RF window. But that's not compared to an M240 (which I've never owned) but to my M9 - although I think the M9/M240 finders are basically identical, optically. The M10 has a completely new design, and maybe some "flare tendency" crept in.

 

And it could just be changes with age (mine, not the camera's) - my M9 is not quite as easy to focus as it was when I was 9 years younger.

 

That last fractional distance between "almost in focus" and "in focus" is always a bit tricky - and can vary depending on the direction one normally focuses. From infinity "in" (left to right) or from 0.7 meters "out" (right to left).

 

Regardless, my M10 still focuses a 135 more reliably than my M9.

 

 

I absolutely agree that the M10 viewfinder is less contrasty and more flare prone than that of the M240. Shooting with the sun anywhere near the finder reduces contract more than with the M240.

 

Maybe the flare is caused by the larger window?

 

I start focus from close (.7) and move toward infinity because my subjects are typically within 15-20 feet and I can get to the subject quicker.

[dkmoore]

 

 

And it could just be changes with age (mine, not the camera's) - my M9 is not quite as easy to focus as it was when I was 9 years younger.

 

 

 

I still have the M240 and notice the differences but I am also only 34 so the eyes are still mostly ok.

 

This is a very minor point but for me it is noticeable if you own both cameras and use both regularly.

 

Maybe the M10-P will have an upgraded finder like they did with the film Ms.

[rafael_macia]

 

 

I still have the M240 and notice the differences but I am also only 34 so the eyes are still mostly ok.

 

This is a very minor point but for me it is noticeable if you own both cameras and use both regularly.

 

Maybe the M10-P will have an upgraded finder like they did with the film Ms.

 

The M10P will be identical to the M10 except that there will be no red Leica dot.

[Jeff S]

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The M10P will be identical to the M10 except that there will be no red Leica dot.

The M9-P included that (and lettering removal) plus sapphire screen, along with a different covering. The M-P offered some additional changes to the M240, including bigger buffer and frame line lever.

 

Jeff

Edited May 26, 2018 by Jeff S

[pico]

And it could just be changes with age (mine, not the camera's) - my M9 is not quite as easy to focus as it was when I was 9 years younger.

 

It is all due to strange physics, Andy. As the universe ages things become heavier, more obscure.

[Gobert]

It is all due to strange physics, Andy. As the universe ages things become heavier, more obscure.

And loosen their strength...

[a.noctilux]

I absolutely agree that the M10 viewfinder is less contrasty and more flare prone than that of the M240. Shooting with the sun anywhere near the finder reduces contract more than with the M240.

 

Maybe the flare is caused by the larger window?

 

I start focus from close (.7) and move toward infinity because my subjects are typically within 15-20 feet and I can get to the subject quicker.

 

 

Just a thought:

- (only respond to blue text)

Since I use along M10 and other M (240/262/M-D/etc.), last year I had same idea as yours,

my M10 VF was less contrasty and more flare prone than my other M, never observed before

(as I believe the M10's VF is the best in my experience )...

 

So I wanted to know why this "best VF" of M10 degraded with time.

 

The answer was so simple .

 

Comparing the Ms's finder and the answer came ...

 

Some grease and finger prints seen on M10 finder front .

 

When cleaned,   the M10's VF recovered it's first class clarity and contrast .

 

Since then, I clean the VF (and other parts) regularly all my Ms.

[dkmoore]

The M10P will be identical to the M10 except that there will be no red Leica dot.

 

 

This is incorrect. Sorry.

[dkmoore]

Just a thought:

- (only respond to blue text)

Since I use along M10 and other M (240/262/M-D/etc.), last year I had same idea as yours,

my M10 VF was less contrasty and more flare prone than my other M, never observed before

(as I believe the M10's VF is the best in my experience )...

 

So I wanted to know why this "best VF" of M10 degraded with time.

 

The answer was so simple .

 

Comparing the Ms's finder and the answer came ...

 

Some grease and finger prints seen on M10 finder front .

 

When cleaned,   the M10's VF recovered it's first class clarity and contrast .

 

Since then, I clean the VF (and other parts) regularly all my Ms.

 

Ha, I have definitely done this but not so this time. I check it frequently. 

 

I remember one user on this forum (couldn't find the post) was complaining about a large black smudge in pictures and realized it was his finger! At least he had the sense of humor to admit it.

[LocalHero1953]

It is all due to strange physics, Andy. As the universe ages things become heavier, more obscure.

It's just the second law of thermodynamics at work on a personal scale.

[jaapv]

This is incorrect. Sorry.

True. The "Leica-Camera Made in Germany" engraving on the back will not be filled with white paint as well.

[MyLeicaWorld]

This is what Stefan Daniel says in the video:

https://youtu.be/GzT1-v8LD6c

 

Just a thought:

- (only respond to blue text)

Since I use along M10 and other M (240/262/M-D/etc.), last year I had same idea as yours,

my M10 VF was less contrasty and more flare prone than my other M, never observed before

(as I believe the M10's VF is the best in my experience )...

 

So I wanted to know why this "best VF" of M10 degraded with time.

 

The answer was so simple .

 

Comparing the Ms's finder and the answer came ...

 

Some grease and finger prints seen on M10 finder front .

 

When cleaned,   the M10's VF recovered it's first class clarity and contrast .

 

Since then, I clean the VF (and other parts) regularly all my Ms.

[MyLeicaWorld]

And also getting a gold walter leica eyepiece can be useful..

[MyLeicaWorld]

 

True. The "Leica-Camera Made in Germany" engraving on the back will not be filled with white paint as well.

[a.noctilux]

This is what Stefan Daniel says in the video:

 

 

Thanks, very useful tips.

 

I like the way he talks about Leica M-D in three words "no screen distraction".

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M