andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #201 Posted March 27, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) The last two posts are very important if we are to get Thorsten to listen to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Hi andybarton, Take a look here Luxury Camera Bags by Thorsten von Overgaard. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pedaes Posted March 27, 2018 Share #202 Posted March 27, 2018 I think the photo of Thorsten and his wife attending the White House Christmas Party in the Mail article may give a clue as to why he is not troubled by our views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 27, 2018 Share #203 Posted March 27, 2018 To be honest I'm not bothered by who is marketing these bags - there will always be someone doing things that most of us find unacceptable, because they don't and they can make money/kudos by doing so. Its more the association with Leica and the fact that Leica is known for producing special editions for a high end market that concerns me as the association of the two could be damaging to Leica. So I think that it is Leica's best interest to clearly distance the company from such products to avoid any sort of association and confusion of the two. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 27, 2018 Share #204 Posted March 27, 2018 I, too, have written Billingham in the hopes that they might prohibit the use of their good name in advertisements and promos for these items. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted March 27, 2018 Share #205 Posted March 27, 2018 To be honest I'm not bothered by who is marketing these bags - there will always be someone doing things that most of us find unacceptable, because they don't and they can make money/kudos by doing so. Its more the association with Leica and the fact that Leica is known for producing special editions for a high end market that concerns me as the association of the two could be damaging to Leica. So I think that it is Leica's best interest to clearly distance the company from such products to avoid any sort of association and confusion of the two. I agree with Paul and think that if we can influence Leica into steering clear of these products and making a clear statement to that effect that should suffice. As I said earlier, Thorsten has probably already weighed up how important our opinions are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 27, 2018 Share #206 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) I think it's better to just concentrate on the reason why people are angered. Just last week the last remaining male Northern White Rhino died of old age. The remaining two females are too old to reproduce. They have been poached to extinction. Our generation has allowed another extinction to occur and I won't sit down and allow legal loop holes to fuel and create another. The current fad driving this demand is elephant skin. There are just 1000-2000 elephants remaining in Myanmar, down from 10000 just two decades ago. They are currently been poached and left for dead stripped of their skins. The only answer is to stop the demand for elephant skin altogether. I don't care who is making it, for what reason, this Rhino extinction is a wake up call for all humanity. I fear there will be a lot more surprises install for us in the coming years unless we act responsibly now. There is absolutely no reason why should be using these skins instead of something sustainable. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 27, 2018 by Paul J 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/283052-luxury-camera-bags-by-thorsten-von-overgaard/?do=findComment&comment=3488829'>More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share #207 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The article in question contains a lot of references to religion, right wing politics and online adult sites. I think a link would seriously derail this thread. I read the article a couple of days ago; I found it to be reminiscent of National Enquirer type "journalism" with almost as much worth. IMHO the religious, political and sexual interests and activities of Overgaard's wife and of Overgaard himself have no bearing on the issue at hand. Edited March 27, 2018 by Herr Barnack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 27, 2018 Share #208 Posted March 27, 2018 I think it's better to just concentrate on the reason why people are angered. I fear there will be a lot more surprises install for us in the coming years unless we act responsibly now. Whilst I do agree, there is little doubt that most people on this forum are already in agreement with you. But a statement from Leica would both safeguard them and make more headlines about the issue than we can discussing it here. I don't see much point in personal attacks though because they only deal with a single purveyor of unacceptable goods - there are no doubt many more sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 27, 2018 Share #209 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Whilst I do agree, there is little doubt that most people on this forum are already in agreement with you. But a statement from Leica would both safeguard them and make more headlines about the issue than we can discussing it here. I don't see much point in personal attacks though because they only deal with a single purveyor of unacceptable goods - there are no doubt many more sadly. I agree with that. I just don't see the relevance in the particular daily mail article that was being discussed. But that point has already been made by many. Edited March 27, 2018 by Paul J 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 27, 2018 Share #210 Posted March 27, 2018 I think the photo of Thorsten and his wife attending the White House Christmas Party in the Mail article may give a clue as to why he is not troubled by our views. Never has the phrase "Ivory Tower" been so relevant. No one is immune from the problems we have created in our planet. Everyone is responsible and accountable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted March 27, 2018 Share #211 Posted March 27, 2018 The last two posts are very important if we are to get Thorsten to listen to us. It was closed on RFF only after multiple comments harassing his spouse. Hate comments without any connection to the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #212 Posted March 27, 2018 Guys. You HAVE to keep politics out of this discussion. Please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #213 Posted March 27, 2018 Have made contact with Andreas on his jolly holidays and have therefore moved this thread into a Google viewable area. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2018 Share #214 Posted March 27, 2018 Guys. You HAVE to keep politics out of this discussion. Please. I hope this passes the test - feel free to delete if not. Until twelve months ago it was illegal to import elephant parts into the USA. Thorsten would not have been able to sell his dead elephant bags. The law was changed almost exactly one year ago to permit their sale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #215 Posted March 27, 2018 I think that’s a matter of record, not a comment on any individual politician. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 27, 2018 Share #216 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) I hope this passes the test - feel free to delete if not. Until twelve months ago it was illegal to import elephant parts into the USA. Thorsten would not have been able to sell his dead elephant bags. The law was changed almost exactly one year ago to permit their sale. I think the US ban on import trophies was trying to be lifted November last year, but after pressure that was put that on hold. But it looks like the import of Elephant Material remans unlawful in California, New York and New Jersey. Edited March 27, 2018 by Paul J 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 27, 2018 Share #217 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) probably gets the leather from the farm in Saigon, its legal and very cheap in Vietnam and they give an international certificate or something with each purchase, i think it says something about farmed crocs etc etc, they eat the meat as well...apparently served at the Sheraton too a LOT of Australian and Mainland Chinese tourists buy these products from Saigon [ i know as the main shop is exactly opposite one of my favorite cafes ] https://www.cites.org/eng/common/reg/cb/VN Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 27, 2018 by frame-it Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/283052-luxury-camera-bags-by-thorsten-von-overgaard/?do=findComment&comment=3488911'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted March 27, 2018 Share #218 Posted March 27, 2018 I find this reprehensible on several levels. But by reading further in Thorsten's site I see he claims the elephant skins are legally obtained from sanctuaries, which sell the skin of elephants that have died of natural causes, and use the money to support conservation actions. If that's true, then it's unlikely he's braking any laws. Similarly, over a year ago the South African government began allowing certain killing of rhinos, on the grounds that it is controlled, the target animals are near death, and the proceeds will go to conserving the remaining rhinos. In both cases I think "perhaps," and as stated above, there is the concern that illegally sourced skins might be mixed in with legally sourced skins. I will not be buying any of Thorsten's services or products in spite of positive comments from some of his customers whom I've met. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #219 Posted March 27, 2018 Unless he’s actually skinned the already dead elephant himself, which I find unlikely, he has no idea whether the skins his Italian friend uses to make these monstrous bags is legal or not. As has been raised already in this thread, legal or not, using elephant skin for a bag encourages the supply of more elephant skin and that encourages people to kill elephants. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #220 Posted March 27, 2018 Do the maths: An Elephant on a private reserve will live up to 60 years, most private reserves (exceptTembe and Addo) Wil have a dozen elephants. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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