scjohn Posted July 4, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have enjoyed my m7 for years. I loved it because every skill I learned 40 years ago as a young photographer could so easily be brought to bear... light, light, light, composition, aperture, shutter speed... boom. Sadly the M8 has shed glaring light on my failure to keep up to date with digital imaging. I am sure I capture images competently but when I download my images I see crazy colors and the like. My worthlessness in the area of digital imaging is ruining me as a photographer. Can I touble you all to ask "How can I learn?" It seems to me I need to learn how to EFFICIENTLY import images, how to save them so I can find, and back them up (on an apple g5) , how to correct colors, and how to print them. I am not looking for step-by-step advice. I would prefer the names of books or videos or tutors in my area (Los Angeles, CA). I can download and tinker with images. The results are hit and miss. My hard drive is full of multiple duplicate images. I have a removeable hard drive but I don't know how to properly move files onto it. People say "wow, that color and saturation is amazing" when something interesting emerges through pure luck. Lastly, I have a DX2 too but the M8 seems punish me for my ineptedude far more than the D2X ever did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 Hi scjohn, Take a look here m8 cry for computer help. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Naos Posted July 4, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 4, 2007 Check these out. This is all you need to become competent using your M8 and Lightroom. Adobe Lightroom: Adobe - Photoshop Lightroom Lightroom Book: Amazon.com: Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book for Digital Photographers,The (Voices That Matter): Books: Scott Kelby Lightroom Video Tutorial: Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Tutorials by Michael Tapes The 'crazy' colors you see are because you incorrectly set your white balance. Don't worry you can easily fix them in Lightroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted July 4, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 4, 2007 Naos is right to suggest Lightroom: it will do all the things you want with minimal learning and it will do them well. I would add that whilst he is probably correct to identify your problem with colours as being related to white balance, if you are to correct this problem successfully in software you will need to shoot in RAW rather than JPEG mode. Alternatively you should always set your WB manually to match the shooting conditions. Other sources of colour aberration relate to whether you use IR filters or not, and what develop settings you are using for your RAW files if you are using RAW. Tell us more and we'll all chip in! TIm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted July 4, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 4, 2007 "the things your father never told you" . . . . I often wonder with the digital revolution how many purchasers of digital cameras realise they need or have the necessary computing skills to get the best from their new aquisitions? Judging by the discussions with some of the older members of my Camera Club I would guess the answer would be 'quite a few'. Still all this learning keeps my brain cells in overdrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 4, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 4, 2007 But I'm guessing that most people shoot Jpegs on a p&s camera with the default settings - that will give them punchy images that they're more than happy with - and show most of the photos on screen, or have prints made from the Jpegs. It's only when you start to try to use a camera in a more subtle way that you begin to realise your lack of knowledge <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 4, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 4, 2007 Careful about saying that Lightroom does "everything" that Stephen asked. As far as I know, it only backs up your library settings, not the photos themselves. They are easy to find, however. Stephen, I agree that Lightroom would be a sensible first step, along with a good book about it. The Martin Evening book is the one I most often hear recommended. Once you have a basic understanding of Lightroom, and how to bring your pictures into the library, develop them, and manage them, the addition of a backup step should more or less wrap up your wishlist. While there are arguably raw developing programs which do some things better than Lightroom, Lightroom's overall competence is unquestioned, and it doesn't do anything badly. It is probably also the easiest package on the market to get into, yet it does a lot. I tried Aperture, Adobe Camera Raw, Capture 1, and a couple of smaller ones like Lightzone and Raw Developer, but Lightroom is my favorite. In order to get started, switch your camera to raw, download the Lightroom trial edition, use "File/Import" to find your files, switch the top dropdown on the import dialog to "Copy photos to a new location and import", and set the Organize dropdown to "By date", according to your preference, and then you are on the way. Inside Lightroom, double-click a picture, press W for whitebalance, and click the mouse somewhere in the image, on a grey/neutral surface, click the Autotone button on the right, and then the colours should be relatively normal. Follow the tutorials from there, and feel free to ask more questions here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 4, 2007 Share #7 Posted July 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is a check-box in Lightroom's import section that tells it to back up images/files to the location you specify. I have mine set to a Disk Image of DVD size. When that's full, I burn 2 DVDs and transfer the files over to an external HD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 4, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 4, 2007 Ah, that's a neat trick, Andy! I'll have to try that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjohn Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted July 4, 2007 I appreciate all of the comments. From my perspective Stunsworth has it exactly right: it takes a certain kind of camera to expose computer incompetence. As I mentioned, I have a D2X and even shooting RAW with the Nikon wasn't that hard. I think iPhoto could even deal with the Nikon raw files. The Leica has forced me to try Aperture (a total disaster until a few weeks ago) and Lightroom. (cool icon. now I just need to learn how to use it.) I am convinced that one of the problems I have with aperture is that I started using it before I knew what I was doing. You need a workflow strategy before you start importing huge files willy-nilly onto your hard drive. Once you have scatter-gunned your images how do you go back and oranize the mess you made. i also don't think the white balance accounts for the color issues I see. It looks more like tinting or highlighting or something. I understand white balance. (Its another old-school throw back. Like filters through the touch of a button.) In fact, the m8 manual white balance is like using an old grey card but better and amazing. The fact is that I need to stop photographing and start computing... argh. I hope to accellerate my learing curve. Is it too much to ask for a book that says "ok you want to import, organize, backup, adjust and save huge raw files on a mac. Buy this software and follow these steps. Vary from them only when you are ready to become computer-adventurous (and that will be never). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted July 4, 2007 Share #10 Posted July 4, 2007 If your monitor is way out of calibration, none of the suggestions will help. Camera (profile in raw converter), monitor and printer all have to be calibrated. In some cases the printer has to be profiled for the particular paper being used. The M8 is a serious professional camera, and you may need the help of a real professional camera store (hopefully where you bought it) to help you through your workflow set up. You may have used film cameras for years, but you probably never processed the film and made prints yourself. With digital, you have a whole new level of flexibility at your finger tips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptruman Posted July 4, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 4, 2007 I would recommend Stephen Johnson's On Digital Photography (O'Reilly) to provide a great overview of the digital darkroom and workflow. It doesn't go into Lightroom as such, but will provide a good grounding in the essentials of colour management, printing, adjustments, etc. This book was released before Lightroom or Aperture were released and thus does tend to focus on Photoshop - but most of the principles can be easily translated. There is also a lot in there explaining the (brief but rapid) evolution of digital photography, and some great images too! Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmb_ Posted July 4, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 4, 2007 Stephen Here is a great resource for a strategy to manage your files: The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers Check it out! There is a link on the web site for the complete first chapter in PDF format so you can get a feel for the book. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #13 Posted July 5, 2007 For an easy start, I would get a Lightroom book and walk through it. Lightroom covers the concepts, no translation required. The DAM book is very heavy and detailed, and way overkill for someone non-pro just starting. Those levels of detail can come later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 5, 2007 Stephen, I would try to find a sympathetic teacher of about the same age as you, who is good with a variety of the proprietary photo RAW conversion, image organisation and manipulation softwares. Get him to lead gently through the various options. BTW, you don't say whether you are Windows or Mac but I am guessing Windows. Once you have decided what suits you, a few hours of one to one tuition and you will be saying "I wish I had realized it was that easy." I just got my sister converted to using RAW on her Nikon D50 and she is now kicking herself she was not doing it years ago. I kept quiet that I have only been using RAW regularly for a couple of years. What is the theoretical best may not be what suits you best. For me theoretically Aperture should be the best for me but even with Eoin's latest 1.102 firmware matrix plist hack, I prefer the output from and conversion profile flexibility in C1LE, even if it means I use three programs, C1LE for conversion, iPhoto as the library and PSE4 for manipulation (changing to PS-CS3 later this week). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted July 5, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 5, 2007 There are lots of free instructional videos on the net explaining how to use software, many useful for photographers and amazingly there's a great wiki index to most covering all the software we've been talking about here: Main page - Wikivid Look for titles for Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture, etc. I recently subscribed to http://www.Lynda.com. They do a very good job on a very wide range of software. Again, all the main photography software is covered as are Windows and Mac and also colour management. There are free samples on the wikivid so you can see if you like them. The subscription is for unlimited use of all their videos. Subscriptions are reasonable in my opinion. Options for a month or a year subscription. Then you need to learn about colour management. Again there's a lot of free stuff on the web. There's a lot here (disclosure note, the link is to my web site and I sell something there) colour management links. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 5, 2007 Wilson, have you found a reasonable way to purchase CS3? It is so bloody expensive in Europe (often way over €1000) that I have found myself being angry at Adobe and not buying it, in spite of wanting to for years. In the States it costs around $600, ie. €450. You can't buy it from there though; they won't ship it. I am considering sending the money to a friend in the States or family in Canada, and have them send it to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Roggen Posted July 5, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 5, 2007 Wilson, have you found a reasonable way to purchase CS3? It is so bloody expensive in Europe (often way over €1000) that I have found myself being angry at Adobe and not buying it, in spite of wanting to for years. In the States it costs around $600, ie. €450. You can't buy it from there though; they won't ship it. I am considering sending the money to a friend in the States or family in Canada, and have them send it to me. (Haven't read the entire thread, so maybe it's already suggested) Why don't you buy a second hand older version and upgrade to CS3? Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 5, 2007 Wilson, have you found a reasonable way to purchase CS3? It is so bloody expensive in Europe (often way over €1000) that I have found myself being angry at Adobe and not buying it, in spite of wanting to for years. In the States it costs around $600, ie. €450. You can't buy it from there though; they won't ship it. I am considering sending the money to a friend in the States or family in Canada, and have them send it to me. Carsten I have bought it from a company called Downloadable OEM software for US$94, from whom I have bought quite a bit before - Acrobat 7 Pro, Dreamweaver 8, etc. I am waiting for my payment to go through at the moment. I am delighted they came back and asked ID confirmation info. On the assumption it all goes through properly tomorrow, I will send you a PM with the link. Their software all updates properly from Adobe's website unlike other OEM sellers or pirate stuff. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #19 Posted July 5, 2007 Hans, it doesn't seem to save me much. I do have a father and sister in Canada, so compared to getting CS3 directly from there, and I do prefer software in English, buying CS2 from England and upgrading doesn't get me any advantage, and it is more of a hassle. I am curious about the Downloadable option, Wilson. It doesn't sound as thought it should be legit though, and I do want an upgrade path, but then again, even if I don't have an upgrade path, the price is very low... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 5, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 5, 2007 I am curious about the Downloadable option, Wilson. It doesn't sound as thought it should be legit though, and I do want an upgrade path, but then again, even if I don't have an upgrade path, the price is very low... I decided that the OEM downloadable route was the way to go. You get all the normal updates but rather like the educational versions, you cannot do a version upgrade. However, given the price, why would you bother. They are US based and have been going for at least 4 to 5 years. If they were illegal, I assume they would have been shut down. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.