Getting in close with the Leica rangefinder

[mr_kimp]

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Hello,

 

I just wanted to find out what people thought on the matter of getting in close with the film Leica rangefinder. Please understand that I am trying to make my RF cameras more useful to me, no need to make suggestions about SLR cameras as I already have a couple.

 

Over the past couple of months I got hold of 2 different samples of the 50mm Summicron Dual Range and both times the lens had cleaning marks inside (scratches), haze etc… the first one had the goggles out of alignment, which I had never heard of, and this costs £150 to recalibrate if it can be done.

Of course I’m sure that light cleaning scratches will not affect anything but it bothers me to pay good priced for lenses that aren’t as described, I wouldn’t mind the scratches if it was reflected in the price.

 

So from here I have another couple of options, the first would be the Leica SOOKY-M or SOMKY with either the collapsiple 50mm Summicron or Elmar. But do the goggles on the SOOKY-M also need to be carefully calibrated? It seems a tad of a gamble having to find a good SOOKY-M and hoping to find a lens that will work fine with the adapter.

Moreover I read on some internet blog/website that these should be used by setting the distance first at the focusing mount and then moving back or forth to get to the right focusing point. The focusing lever on the SOOKY-M does look a bit awkward to use to be honest but what do I know…

 

Lastly there is the 90mm macro Elmar M. The fact that it is an f4 lens is not such of a problem, but to pay this much money for an f4 lens is kinda hard to swallow. I hear that the lens performs very well but to me this is not terribly important and I do not rely on my Leicas to take better quality pictures than other brands of cameras.

 

 

Thank you for your good advice!

[spydrxx]

Leicas don't take better pictures, skilled photographers do. The Leica is merely a precision tool. As far as "getting in close" - not sure exactly what you are shooting, but on a screwmount or M body camera (film, not digital) most people use a Visoflex with lens heads in focusing mounts, which essentially converts it to a SLR. The digitals, where one can either use an electronic viewfinder or focus on a screen, are more suited to close-up work without add-ons.

[caymanlawyer]

Actually, I think that was a good question. Some of us have no interest in digital cameras and want to use film, and further we like using our Leicas. I have also been thinking about a DR summicron or a NOOKY for a red scale elmar, as I would like to be able to shoot closer than 100cm on a barnack or 75 cm on my M3. This is not for macro photography, and a visoflex or an SLR are not required. I think the field of view at the closest focus using a 50 DR or NOOKY would be the same as if we were using a 90mm lens, and as I have a 90 I am not sure if these close up devices are 'necessary' when I want to get closer or I should just use the 90 instead.

[wattsy]

Unless you go down the Visoflex route, the 90 Macro Elmar is the only realistic way of getting close using the RF and film. With the goggles you can get in to around 0.5m and a 1:3 reproduction ratio. Without the goggles you can get as close as 0.76m and something like a 1:7 ratio. The downside of using the googles is that you are restricted to the focussing range of 0.5m-0.76m. It can become a bit of a pain to remove and replace the googles depending upon what you are photographing. That said, I think the 90 Macro kit extends the functionality of the M system hugely and I use the combination quite frequently.

 

 

 

[caymanlawyer]

Responding to my own post now that I am more awake, I think there are 2 reasons for 'getting closer'. Firstly, reducing the field of view (cropping), and secondly increasing the relative size of the subject. Using a 90 would satisfy the first but not the second reason.

 

Would I be right in thinking that the reason why a 90 won't do the same job as focusing closer with a 50, in some cases, is the reproduction ratio? Does getting closer with a 50 reproduce the same object at a greater size on the film than a 90 at a greater distance?

 

Anyway, there is another excellent reason to buy a DR summicron; it is a beautiful lens. And buying barnack kit needs no reason beyond enjoying such wonderful mini-engineering.

[a.noctilux]

Hello,

 

I just wanted to find out what people thought on the matter of getting in close with the film Leica rangefinder. Please understand that I am trying to make my RF cameras more useful to me, no need to make suggestions about SLR cameras as I already have a couple.

 

Over the past couple of months I got hold of 2 different samples of the 50mm Summicron Dual Range and both times the lens had cleaning marks inside (scratches), haze etc… the first one had the goggles out of alignment, which I had never heard of, and this costs £150 to recalibrate if it can be done.

Of course I’m sure that light cleaning scratches will not affect anything but it bothers me to pay good priced for lenses that aren’t as described, I wouldn’t mind the scratches if it was reflected in the price.

 

So from here I have another couple of options, the first would be the Leica SOOKY-M or SOMKY with either the collapsiple 50mm Summicron or Elmar. But do the goggles on the SOOKY-M also need to be carefully calibrated? It seems a tad of a gamble having to find a good SOOKY-M and hoping to find a lens that will work fine with the adapter.

Moreover I read on some internet blog/website that these should be used by setting the distance first at the focusing mount and then moving back or forth to get to the right focusing point. The focusing lever on the SOOKY-M does look a bit awkward to use to be honest but what do I know…

 

Lastly there is the 90mm macro Elmar M. The fact that it is an f4 lens is not such of a problem, but to pay this much money for an f4 lens is kinda hard to swallow. I hear that the lens performs very well but to me this is not terribly important and I do not rely on my Leicas to take better quality pictures than other brands of cameras.

 

 

Thank you for your good advice!

 

From zero, if you don't own a 50mm lens and want to do near focussing with M on occasions, the SOMKY route is good idea.

SOMKY can be used with most of 50mm with removable head even the DR's head can be mounted with 16508 ring.

 

If you can find nice Summicron 50mm version III, this is my best combo for long time film use (decades slides from M ! ).

This combo is lighter than DR + adapter that I use later (and now), but need more mounting/unmounting procedure.

 

The SOMNY is very rugged (no complain or calibration needed for decades for me), more than DR's adapter.

I think that the DR's adapter is prone to be "bad" because it's a simple device and when not in use people didn't take care of it as precision device.

In the past, I had some DR's adapter that was "bad" before me or with me .

 

Not so with SOMKY which has a look of precision device.

Using SOMKY is simple: adjust the ratio from 1:7.5 to 1:15 with the lever, then approching to align the patch in VF.

The ratio is the same as DR + adapter so circa from 48cm to 90cm from film plane.

 

I use also Macro-Elmar-M 90mm + adapter, but that is maybe the next step for you .

To reach 1:3 is fun in M use.

 

Have fun whichever your choice.

[wattsy]

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Would I be right in thinking that the reason why a 90 won't do the same job as focusing closer with a 50, in some cases, is the reproduction ratio? Does getting closer with a 50 reproduce the same object at a greater size on the film than a 90 at a greater distance?.

No, I think you are possibly confusing reproduction ratio with the effects of perspective. Reproduction ratio is simply the ratio of the size of the real object with the size of its image on the film or sensor. To get a higher reproduction ratio from a 50mm compared with a 90mm lens, the former will need to focus much closer than the latter. In the Leica film M world, the largest reproduction ratio (closest to Macro) you can obtain is the 1:3 you get with the 90 Macro Elmar and goggles adaptor combination focussed at 0.5m. The 50 DR won’t give you that. If you want larger than 1:3 you will need to go down the Visoflex route. Edited February 10, 2018 by wattsy

[caymanlawyer]

I probably am confused. I have checked, unscientifically, by taking my M6 and using closest focus with 90 attached, and then taping off 47cm which is what it would be with DR or NOOKY and using the 50mm framelines and I get pretty much the same field of view in the viewfinder. They both show the same 'frame' for the shot. I looked up the reproduction ratio for a DR and a NOOKY and it appears to be about 1:7 in each case.

 

Of course, if one wants to shoot really close then the 90 f4 macro is the only way (other than visoflex), but it seems to me that the old options either for M mount or for the barnacks provide a half way house (closer but not macro) that might be worthwhile, and cost a lot less than the modern 90 macro lens!

 

I quite like the idea of what the red scale elmar will look like shot closer than 1m. If I want to have something super sharp I can use my Elmarit M 90 instead. Anyway, this may just be GAS justification on my part as I like the idea of the DR summicron and the NOOKY.

[a.noctilux]

NOOKY as Wiki: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/NOOKY

ratio is 1:6 (while mine is engraved 1:6.5 at closest distance, small error or different period ? ) better than

SOMKY as Wiki : https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/SOMKY

 (an small error in this article here on closest ratio , NOT 1:5.5 but 1:7.5 engraved on mine )

 

For those the right definition is "close-focus" and "not macro" use.

[tamas]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I achieved this relative closeup using my M9 and APO Summicron 75 from a distance of somewhere around 1.5 - 2. metres best I recollect and heavily cropped. 

Not the same I know as having the appropriate equipment but, I was still happy with the result.. though could have improved it using a tripod. Love the bokeh I got.

[wattsy]

That's a nice photo but, as you say, quite heavily cropped. For comparison, and to illustrate the close up potential of the 90 Macro Elmar and adaptor, my photos above are uncropped.

 

 

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Edited February 11, 2018 by wattsy

[Reciprocity]

Hello,

 

 Please understand that I am trying to make my RF cameras more useful to me, no need to make suggestions about SLR cameras as I already have a couple.

 

 

 

 

 

Then there is probably not much to give in the way of advice on this matter really.

 

If obtaining a great photo within a specific limitation or genre is top priority, then you simply use the right tool for the job. An RF camera is not the right tool for close up work.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Reciprocity

[tamas]

That's a nice photo but, as you say, quite heavily cropped. For comparison, and to illustrate the close up potential of the 90 Macro Elmar and adaptor, my photos above are uncropped.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you wattsy for your reply.  No I fully acknowledge what you say.  I am only occasionally attracted to taking close ups as best I can with what I have and on this occasion I was curious to see what I could achieve with the 75 lens and the resulting quality.

[Gregm61]

This, plain and simply, is not the best solution for getting that up close and personal with your subject, unless you've got a live view body and want to go to the trouble to adapt a Leica R lens or some other lens from another reflex system. If I'm looking to do close-ups, the M262 goes into the bag and I pull out my Olympus E-M1 Mark II and 12-100mm f4 that focuses so close on it's own the subject comes close to touching the front element of the lens.

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Gregm61