01af Posted April 3, 2018 Share #41 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd disagree with that statement. So you're wrong. EV 8 specifies a specific amount of light ... No, it doesn't. Just have a closer look at any hand-held light meter that incorporates an EV scale and you'll see immediately how wrong you are. You can convert EV to LUX: LUX = 2.5 * 2^EV No, you cannot. The formula you're giving is incomplete; the ISO value it refers to is missing. Without an ISO value, the formula doesn't make any sense. It is a VERY common misconception to confuse exposure values and brightness values. Edited April 3, 2018 by 01af Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 Hi 01af, Take a look here Using M240 to catch action. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
helged Posted April 3, 2018 Share #42 Posted April 3, 2018 If I may...: Action foto with the M may work fine as long as one doesn't need too long lens and/or if the movement is rather predictable - as is the case for most of the shots presented in this thread. But I would never be able to get this kind of image with an M; I had this Golden Eagle in sight for a few seconds, only. And the lens used was a 400mm + 1.4 extender (Nikon D850 in this case). This is a shot that requires very short shutter delay. It worked on the SL (SL+90-280mm @ 280mm, with the lens prefocussed), but it would hardly work on the M. Ok - after 1000x trials you may get a shot or two, but the M is not made for situations with (rather) non-predictable and very quick movements. Surely not on distance. Horses for courses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share #43 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) If I may...: Action foto with the M may work fine as long as one doesn't need too long lens and/or if the movement is rather predictable - as is the case for most of the shots presented in this thread. But I would never be able to get this kind of image with an M; I had this Golden Eagle in sight for a few seconds, only. And the lens used was a 400mm + 1.4 extender (Nikon D850 in this case). This is a shot that requires very short shutter delay. It worked on the SL (SL+90-280mm @ 280mm, with the lens prefocussed), but it would hardly work on the M. Ok - after 1000x trials you may get a shot or two, but the M is not made for situations with (rather) non-predictable and very quick movements. Surely not on distance. Horses for courses... While I agree with above (that AF is better for this kind of shots), I won't say you can never get a shot. In fact when I started the thread, I just wanted to make a statement that one should try. It is hard but also very satisfying with a manual everything camera. Since you mentioned Golden Eagles (Beautiful shot. Awesome bird), I have been shooting them as well. There is a good habitat for them not too far from where I live. Once (and only once) I witnessed the "Sky Dance", their mating ritual. The male was flying up and down in giant roller coaster path. It must have gone on for more than 5 minutes. It was so amazing that I forgot to take a video. I did shoot with 80-200Vario R on Nex6 and managed to make a composite showing the "Sky Dance". I generally use Sony Nex6 for shooting birds since EVF is responsive. Would AF will work better, You betcha, but shooting birds is not my priority and I want to keep my equipment simpler. Nex6+80-200Vario R at 200mm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 3, 2018 by jmahto 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/281632-using-m240-to-catch-action/?do=findComment&comment=3493438'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted April 3, 2018 Share #44 Posted April 3, 2018 Nice shot! Yes, that is indeed proper distance... but my cat moves faster than those guys. BTW, quick question. How did you do the metering? Classic metering will overexpose I guess with that kind of lighting. Did you compensate? Thanks and very funny I don't recall what I actually did b/c this was a number of years ago and it was before I adopted my current metering workflow, which would be to go down to the court and take an incident reading under the bright lights and then probably open up a stop or two from there depending not he film I am using. But with digital (which I no longer use), you can just chimp away! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted April 3, 2018 Share #45 Posted April 3, 2018 While I agree with above (that AF is better for this kind of shots), I won't say you can never get a shot. In fact when I started the thread, I just wanted to make a statement that one should try. It is hard but also very satisfying with a manual everything camera. Since you mentioned Golden Eagles (Beautiful shot. Awesome bird), I have been shooting them as well. There is a good habitat for them not too far from where I live. Once (and only once) I witnessed the "Sky Dance", their mating ritual. The male was flying up and down in giant roller coaster path. It must have gone on for more than 5 minutes. It was so amazing that I forgot to take a video. I did shoot with 80-200Vario R on Nex6 and managed to make a composite showing the "Sky Dance". I generally use Sony Nex6 for shooting birds since EVF is responsive. Would AF will work better, You betcha, but shooting birds is not my priority and I want to keep my equipment simpler. Nex6+80-200Vario R at 200mm Nice shot - and what a perfect geometry! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted April 3, 2018 Share #46 Posted April 3, 2018 So you're wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last. There is a difference, as noted above, between EV and LV. I may be mixing up the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted April 3, 2018 Share #47 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, various responses above is helping me clarifying my own understanding. After further reading I found that what I was referring to is LV (Light Value) which is independent of camera (and its exposure setting). According to wikipedia article on Light Value, LV is synonymous with EV at ISO 100. Therefore I should have said LV (and not EV). Another article explains the difference as below: ----------------- Light Values - In Front of the Camera A light value (LV) is a measure of the luminance of a scene. Luminance is the amount of light reflecting off of the subject. In contrast, illumination is the amount of light falling on the subject. Exposure Values - Inside the Camera An exposure value (EV) is the exposure settings on your camera for a particular combination of light value and ISO. Light Values ↔ ISO ↔ Exposure Values Light values are linked to exposure values by way of the ISO setting of the camera. ----------------------- Hello Jayant, Thank you for looking in to this. The first article that you quoted said that what an EV or a LV might or might not be is somewhat iffy. There is no universal agreement beyond what I already wrote in previous Posts. The second article says things but does not provide any substantiation for its perspective. So I would say that LV & EV are pretty much interchangeable terms which represent a certain total number of photons going thru a lens opening during an exposure. EV & LV are NOT universally related to any ISO, ASA or DIN of any film or any sensor as far as I can tell. Best Regards, Michael Edited April 3, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share #48 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Hello Jayant, Thank you for looking in to this. The first article that you quoted said that what an EV or a LV might or might not be is somewhat iffy. There is no universal agreement beyond what I already wrote in previous Posts. The second article says things but does not provide any substantiation for its perspective. So I would say that LV & EV are pretty much interchangeable terms which represent a certain total number of photons going thru a lens opening during an exposure. EV & LV are NOT universally related to any ISO, ASA or DIN of any film or any sensor as far as I can tell. Best Regards, Michael Well, there is more.... I bumped into all knowing Rockwell's page on this. He seems to be saying the same thing. LV = EV at ISO 100. He gives the following example: <Quote> For instance, if your subject is at LV14, expose at EV13 with ASA 50 film. EV13 gives one stop more exposure than EV14. With ISO/ASA 400 speed film you add two to the LV to get the EV, which is the same as subtracting two stops of exposure. Therefore with an LV14 subject you expose at EV16. </Quote> https://kenrockwell.com/tech/ev.htm Now for my cat picture I should have said that it was shot with EV8 (as you corrected me) in a very low light of LV3 that required me to bump my ISO to 3200. Edited April 3, 2018 by jmahto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 3, 2018 Share #49 Posted April 3, 2018 Excellent series of the Golden Eagle. Another highly desirable picture would be the part of the mating dance where the male and female grasp each other's talons and plunge toward the ground together, only to release and recover at a breath-taking low altitude. Thanks for the picture! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share #50 Posted April 4, 2018 Excellent series of the Golden Eagle. Another highly desirable picture would be the part of the mating dance where the male and female grasp each other's talons and plunge toward the ground together, only to release and recover at a breath-taking low altitude. Thanks for the picture! Thanks. It was amazing to watch. After the dance they were flying together circling each other. I didn't see the grasping and falling part. Maybe newer Snapchat generation have different ritual. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted April 4, 2018 Share #51 Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) A bit more on the EV stuff. See the attached scan of my old Lunasix meter pretending to measure an average open shade scene. The '18" on the to scale is about what such a scene would measure. That scale is arbitrary. The small scale at the bottom is the EV scale The left image shows the exposure combinations for a 100 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 13 The middle image shows the exposure combinations for a 400 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 15 The right image shows the exposure combinations for a 3200 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 18 As I posted earlier, with a Hasselblad C lens, where the aperture and shutter time rings are locked together, and which have a EV scale, it was convenient to simply move either or both the shutter and aperture ring to the EV; the two rings would lock and you cold move them in unison to any of the aperture/shutter time combinations. The EV, for exposure compensation, shown in the Leica simply means plus or minus x stops. Since the camera does not have any way to control the aperture, the EV compensation adjusts the shutter time. So, for a given ISO and say a 1/60 sec exposure, a plus 1 EV would make the camera see the shutter time to 1/30 sec; a minus 1 EV, would get the camera to set the exposure to 1/125 sec. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 4, 2018 by Jean-Michel 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/281632-using-m240-to-catch-action/?do=findComment&comment=3493766'>More sharing options...
jmahto Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share #52 Posted April 4, 2018 A bit more on the EV stuff. See the attached scan of my old Lunasix meter pretending to measure an average open shade scene. The '18" on the to scale is about what such a scene would measure. That scale is arbitrary. The small scale at the bottom is the EV scale The left image shows the exposure combinations for a 100 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 13 The middle image shows the exposure combinations for a 400 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 15 The right image shows the exposure combinations for a 3200 ASA/ISO film or sensor. The EV in that case is 18 As I posted earlier, with a Hasselblad C lens, where the aperture and shutter time rings are locked together, and which have a EV scale, it was convenient to simply move either or both the shutter and aperture ring to the EV; the two rings would lock and you cold move them in unison to any of the aperture/shutter time combinations. The EV, for exposure compensation, shown in the Leica simply means plus or minus x stops. Since the camera does not have any way to control the aperture, the EV compensation adjusts the shutter time. So, for a given ISO and say a 1/60 sec exposure, a plus 1 EV would make the camera see the shutter time to 1/30 sec; a minus 1 EV, would get the camera to set the exposure to 1/125 sec. Thanks a lot. It is clear to me now. I see that... - For the same scene brightness (LV value) - we will have different EV (how much light gets thru lens+shutter) for different ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted April 5, 2018 Share #53 Posted April 5, 2018 I worked with a man I consider a great sports photographer before auto-focus and zooms who had hundreds of images published (plus three news Pulitzers). It was if he lived 10 milliseconds in the future. In the last decade he used auto-focus and I asked him how he felt about it, he said, "About how I feel about sliced bread." I still don't know what he meant! (In our household we do not buy sliced bread and I am as bad at slicing as I was as a sports photographer.) Sorry, but I cannot think of a male photographer that's won three Pulitzers in News photography. Who is the photographer to whom you refer? Just asking. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 5, 2018 Share #54 Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Sorry, but I cannot think of a male photographer that's won three Pulitzers in News photography. Who is the photographer to whom you refer? Just asking. :-) Hal Stoelzle. Two of the Pulitzers were as a part of a team. The first was solo. Nonetheless, we should not judge a photographer by such prizes. He was an employed photographer doing very good work for fifty years, and I saw a lot of his work when we were on the same staff. Hal is a steady, entirely humble and talented photographer whom I will always admire. Edited April 5, 2018 by pico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted April 7, 2018 Share #55 Posted April 7, 2018 Hal - thanks. He was in Orange County when I was at the San Jose (CA) Mercury News. We're both Topeka grads, too. I should have thought of him. Thanks, Pico. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 7, 2018 Share #56 Posted April 7, 2018 Hal - thanks. He was in Orange County when I was at the San Jose (CA) Mercury News. We're both Topeka grads, too. I should have thought of him. Thanks, Pico. Both Topeka grads! You were in good company all the way. I wish I had known you at the time. So much is lost. Peace, Pico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted April 7, 2018 Share #57 Posted April 7, 2018 Both Topeka grads! You were in good company all the way. I wish I had known you at the time. So much is lost. Peace, Pico I was "pre-Lanker". Lol. I interned 1968. Dave Harvey (David Alan Harvey) was staff photographer. Everybody feared Clarkson. What else is new, right. Mark Godfrey was also on staff - went on to LIFE then Magnum. Good times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 9, 2018 Share #58 Posted April 9, 2018 If you need autofocus to make a snapshot you can always use a smartphone. The inbuilt cameras are really rather good at that sort of thing. Just remember not to have your fingers or thumb in front of the lens. For photography you will have the M240. Photography for me is like a meal. You can choose fast food (snapshot) or, for example, a home made cassoulet (photography). One requires skill and no taste, the other needs hours of preparation and cooking and the taste buds will come alive! I disagree. I recently shot pics of family toddlers using a Canon 5D and 85/1.8 wide open. I could not have gotten that kind of subject isolation with a smartphone (I guess there are apps that fake shallow DOF but I haven't seen the results so I can't comment) nor could I have nailed focus using a Leica with similar lens at similar aperture given the sudden, unpredictable, erratic movement of the subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted April 9, 2018 Share #59 Posted April 9, 2018 Didn't Henri Cartier Bresson predict sudden erratic movements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted April 9, 2018 Share #60 Posted April 9, 2018 Didn't Henri Cartier Bresson predict sudden erratic movements? Yes he did ...... decisively 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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