Leica S lens on Fuji GFX 50s

[John McMaster]

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There are effectively only 10 lenses available in S mount, I would have thought they could have found one of each....

john

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ZHNL]

This most likely is the path for me to keep my S glasses relevant and used with latest sensor tech. 
only problem if Kipon want customers treat them seriously, they need show some after sale support effort on FW, or other after sale support. I read lots of bad customer experience regarding their after sale support. 

Edited March 1 by ZHNL

[helged]

On 2/27/2025 at 8:37 PM, Sarnian said:

UPDATE: Kipon are testing one final lens before they hope to start shipping the adapter. 

 

Any news re shipping? 

[Sarnian]

28 minutes ago, helged said:

Any news re shipping? 

Not yet. I have just messaged Xiaoming Zhang (the owner of Kipon) to ask for an update.

[Einst_Stein]

Still haven’t seen any clarification on the power regulation yet. 
Remember Leica S has 7.3v power system while Fujifilm GFX has 10.8v, almost 1.5x higher. 

If GFX exposes the 10.8v voltage to Leica S lens, there will be long term reliability disaster. It won’t take very long!
My Contax 645 (6v power system) lens was burnt by GFX camera(+ adapter) in the middle of first trip. 

To  make it right, the adapter must have proper voltage regulator to present 7.3v to the lens, also, the regulator must have enough current rating to support the needed driving capability to every possible lens. The current rating cannot be too high either. 

More, the focusing algorithms of the camera must not overdrive the lens focusing. Meaning, if there is ramp-up ramp-down algorithm that try to optimize the focusing speed and accuracy, when the lens is heavy, it must know how to deal with properly, without overdo it.

[ZHNL]

Usually, I don’t think system will use battery voltage directly. It will go through multi stage regulation for each sub system because battery voltage is not stable DC depend on how much usage. For example, for processor, most likely in 1.2V or 1.8V domain for older tech like camera and sub 1V for sub 10nm process. 
 

it is not to say proper designed power management is not important for smart adapter but the claim of high risk just because of battery default level is different seems like stretch. 

[Einst_Stein]

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1 hour ago, ZHNL said:

Usually, I don’t think system will use battery voltage directly. It will go through multi stage regulation for each sub system because battery voltage is not stable DC depend on how much usage. For example, for processor, most likely in 1.2V or 1.8V domain for older tech like camera and sub 1V for sub 10nm process. 
 

it is not to say proper designed power management is not important for smart adapter but the claim of high risk just because of battery default level is different seems like stretch. 

This is not about how you think or how you feel, this is a frequent real problem. It happened on some other cross platform adapters. 
But if you don’t want to believe, it’s OK, go ahead, just try it, use your best beloved lenses, and come back telling us the results. 

I don’t mean this particular S-GFX adapter. I am hoping the maker unferstands the issue and has done the right thing. I just want to be sure before I buy it. 

[Sarnian]

7 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Still haven’t seen any clarification on the power regulation yet. 
Remember Leica S has 7.3v power system while Fujifilm GFX has 10.8v, almost 1.5x higher. 

If GFX exposes the 10.8v voltage to Leica S lens, there will be long term reliability disaster. It won’t take very long!
My Contax 645 (6v power system) lens was burnt by GFX camera(+ adapter) in the middle of first trip. 

To  make it right, the adapter must have proper voltage regulator to present 7.3v to the lens, also, the regulator must have enough current rating to support the needed driving capability to every possible lens. The current rating cannot be too high either. 

More, the focusing algorithms of the camera must not overdrive the lens focusing. Meaning, if there is ramp-up ramp-down algorithm that try to optimize the focusing speed and accuracy, when the lens is heavy, it must know how to deal with properly, without overdo it.

I have quoted this in a message to Xiaoming Zhang. Let's see what he says. 

[ZHNL]

3 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

This is not about how you think or how you feel, this is a frequent real problem. It happened on some other cross platform adapters. 
But if you don’t want to believe, it’s OK, go ahead, just try it, use your best beloved lenses, and come back telling us the results. 

I don’t mean this particular S-GFX adapter. I am hoping the maker unferstands the issue and has done the right thing. I just want to be sure before I buy it. 

Sorry that my reply offend you. What you want me to believe?

Actually I can just change my reply removed “think” or “feel” as I am 100% sure nobody will use battery power directly for anything like processor or AF engine.

I was just trying to be polite. 

[Einst_Stein]

8 minutes ago, ZHNL said:

Sorry that my reply offend you. What you want me to believe?

Actually I can just change my reply removed “think” or “feel” as I am 100% sure nobody will use battery power directly for anything like processor or AF engine.

I was just trying to be polite. 

No offenses, not a problem. Use your own judge.

In fact, none of our opinion matters, let’s wait to see what the maker has to say.

Edited March 13 by Einst_Stein

[Leica Land]

From Kipon Web new delivery date will be 1 April 2025.

Price have revert to original S12XX

[Sarnian]

2 hours ago, Leica Land said:

From Kipon Web new delivery date will be 1 April 2025.

Price have revert to original S12XX

I'll stay positive and take that as a good sign that they're making sure that everything works as it should (i.e. the voltage issues we've been discussing here). 

[Tirpitz666]

1st of April lol😀

 

Let's cross fingers it doesn't end like being vaporware..

[Pieter12]

On 3/12/2025 at 4:24 PM, Einst_Stein said:

This is not about how you think or how you feel, this is a frequent real problem. It happened on some other cross platform adapters. 
But if you don’t want to believe, it’s OK, go ahead, just try it, use your best beloved lenses, and come back telling us the results. 

I don’t mean this particular S-GFX adapter. I am hoping the maker unferstands the issue and has done the right thing. I just want to be sure before I buy it. 

You certainly seem quite concerned about voltage issues. You raised them with the use of Leica chargers, now with lens adapters. Something must have gone quite wrong with something you tried. Care to elaborate? As far as I know Leica and Leica users have not experienced (or maybe admitted to) any problems using their S2/006 battery charger with the S3 battery despite the voltage difference, and none of the Leica S adapters for other makes has fried a lens.

[Einst_Stein]

4 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

You certainly seem quite concerned about voltage issues. You raised them with the use of Leica chargers, now with lens adapters. Something must have gone quite wrong with something you tried. Care to elaborate? As far as I know Leica and Leica users have not experienced (or maybe admitted to) any problems using their S2/006 battery charger with the S3 battery despite the voltage difference, and none of the Leica S adapters for other makes has fried a lens.

t seems you are only using your guess. If you don't think there would be problem, feel free to explore. 

On the adapter, I have the problem burnt my contax N lens (Sony +m adapter) and Contax 645 lens (GFX100II + adapter), and it is confirmed by my local camera repairer. 

On the S battery, no bad experiences yet, but Leica warned  old battery on new S camera but new battery is OK with their old S camera. The only difference I can tell is the voltage, and it is minor (7.3V vs 7.4V, if I remember correct). The difference is supposed to be within the 5% tolerance, but I don't understand why Leica warns us. The only reason I can think of is the voltage rating. 

All comments here are not meant to be expertise, so you have to take it with your own judge. I would be on the cautious side. YMMV. 

So if you don't like it, ignore, but do not propaganda the potential risks, unless you have expert's insight. If you real do, please say it. 

Sorry, I take it back, you can say whatever you believe in this thread. The readers have read enough comment from both sides, so let the readers to make their own judge. 

Edited March 18 by Einst_Stein

[Pieter12]

15 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

t seems you are only using your guess. If you don't think there would be problem, feel free to explore. 

On the adapter, I have the problem burnt my contax N lens (Sony +m adapter) and Contax 645 lens (GFX100II + adapter), and it is confirmed by my local camera repairer. 

On the S battery, no bad experiences yet, but Leica warned  old battery on new S camera but new battery is OK with their old S camera. The only difference I can tell is the voltage, and it is minor (7.3V vs 7.4V, if I remember correct). The difference is supposed to be within the 5% tolerance, but I don't understand why Leica warns us. The only reason I can think of is the voltage rating. 

All comments here are not meant to be expertise, so you have to take it with your own judge. I would be on the cautious side. YMMV. 

So if you don't like it, ignore, but do not propaganda the potential risks, unless you have expert's insight. If you real do, please say it. 

Sorry, I take it back, you can say whatever you believe in this thread. The readers have read enough comment from both sides, so let the readers to make their own judge. 

I am not guessing. I am basing my opinion on actual reported facts and incidents. The problems you have experienced seem to originate from a couple of other manufacturers' adapters, you don't state whether they are OEM or not. There could well be unaddressed voltage issues with those, one does not know how thorough the design and engineering is nor what kind of quality controls are in place.

As far as I know, the only current (pun maybe intended) adapter that allows the use of S lenses on a different body is the one for the SL made by Leica. And I have not read of any damage occurring to the lens with that one.

The Leica battery issue is with using the older S batteries with the S3, not the other way around. As a matter of fact, the newer batteries last longer in the older cameras. If I recall correctly, your previous comments about batteries were about using the chargers with both types of batteries as well as being concerned about the voltage differences.

[BernardC]

15 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

On the S battery, no bad experiences yet, but Leica warned  old battery on new S camera but new battery is OK with their old S camera. The only difference I can tell is the voltage, and it is minor (7.3V vs 7.4V, if I remember correct). The difference is supposed to be within the 5% tolerance, but I don't understand why Leica warns us. The only reason I can think of is the voltage rating. 

I can think of a few more reasons. Internal resistance is at the top of the list. I doubt that 0.1 V is the reason, because the new battery will drop to 7.3V (and lower) as it is discharged.

The "new" battery came-out a decade ago. Someone would have noticed by now if it wasn't compatible with the S2 and S-006, and there would be several threads on this forum. Why speculate about a problem that doesn't exist? Do we need to wait another decade, just to be cautious?

[Einst_Stein]

18 minutes ago, Pieter12 said:

I am not guessing. I am basing my opinion on actual reported facts and incidents. The problems you have experienced seem to originate from a couple of other manufacturers' adapters, you don't state whether they are OEM or not. There could well be unaddressed voltage issues with those, one does not know how thorough the design and engineering is nor what kind of quality controls are in place.

As far as I know, the only current (pun maybe intended) adapter that allows the use of S lenses on a different body is the one for the SL made by Leica. And I have not read of any damage occurring to the lens with that one.

The Leica battery issue is with using the older S batteries with the S3, not the other way around. As a matter of fact, the newer batteries last longer in the older cameras. If I recall correctly, your previous comments about batteries were about using the chargers with both types of batteries as well as being concerned about the voltage differences.

You are right, the problems I encountered are all due to the third party adapters. I am using Leica made C to S adapter and it works fine. This indicates across platform adapter can be done, even if they have different power system. This is where voltage regulater can help. Besides, knowing the lens resistance also helps. 

Now back to the S to GFX adapter, since this is also a third party adapter, it might cause troublers unless the maker knows very well the problem. 

Building in voltage regulator is fairly easy, as long as it has enough current supply capability, under-drive is no no, but over drive is normally OK. However, the driver output is slightly different. Underdrive is still no no, but overdrive can be equally or even more harmful. The problematic adapter I had before was claimed "focusing is even much faster then on the original camera", which is exactly an alert that this adapter could be harmful, In fact it is very harmful. 

Besides the driver's driving force, the speed ramp-up ramp-down might also be important. Any college student who has done the motor driving/aiming project should know how to get the motor to the target fast and accurate. The motor could starts slowly, then ramp up the speed properly according to the friction or momentum ( according to the specs or through some feedback loop), before getting to the target position, it should properly ramp down the speed avoid overshoot, or, if overshoot is allowed, it can do back and forth to end at the best target position. The ramp-up and ramp-down process might be different due to the friction and momentum. On lens adapter, either it needs to understand each lens's specs, or can adaptively adjust according to the feedback.

On the S battery, yes, I have mentioned in the above comment, if you read carefully, Leica warned using old battery with new camera, but new battery on old camera is OK. On the charger, however, new battery on old charger and old battery on new charger is essentially charging the low voltage battery with high voltage charger or charging the high voltage battery with lower charger. If the charger does not stop properly, either their battery or the charger may suffer the over drive problem. The result is shorter life.

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[Einst_Stein]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I can think of a few more reasons. Internal resistance is at the top of the list. I doubt that 0.1 V is the reason, because the new battery will drop to 7.3V (and lower) as it is discharged.

The "new" battery came-out a decade ago. Someone would have noticed by now if it wasn't compatible with the S2 and S-006, and there would be several threads on this forum. Why speculate about a problem that doesn't exist? Do we need to wait another decade, just to be cautious?

 No one said new battery not compatible with old S cameras. 

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

 No one said new battery not compatible with old S cameras. 

That was my point. Why hint that there could be a problem, when no problem has surfaced after a decade?

The old battery was never compatible with the S-007 or S3, so that's not an issue either. I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.