Question about Q and flash use

[jay968]

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When setting the Q to manual exposure to do flash shots, the camera's EVF (or LCD) will show a very dark scene in a dimly lit room making it pretty impossible to do flash photography. Once the shutter release is pressed half way down to focus, the entire scene goes dark unless there is a lot of ambient light. Most mirrorless cameras have the option to view either this way or to have the EVF show a "normal" exposure. The Q does  not seem to have this option...or am I mistaken?

 

I can leave the camera on auto exposure which fixes this but doing so defeats the purpose of using flash altogether.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

[HighlandK]

I am assuming you are describing the situation with studio strobes where a radio trigger is mounted on the hot shoe. Certainly with Fuji and Olympus there is a menu setting - live view boost or something similar. However my Q does not exhibit what you describe and which I have seen in others’ Fuji and Olympus. I am not aware of having made a specific menu setting nor can I find one looking through the menu just now. With for example 1/125 at f16 the image in both EVF and LCD is very bright in a dimly lit room. The bars at the bottom of the screen are highlighted in red to show a grossly under exposed result if an image is taken. A half press makes no difference.

 

Since I cannot remeber making a menu change I have always assumed this to be the default behaviour. Doesn’t solve your problem though.

[jay968]

Press down to focus. Is the view still very bright or did the aperture stop down thus making everything dark?

[jay968]

Actually you said a half press makes no difference? WOW. With mine a half press stops the lens down to the shooting aperture and everything looks way dark. I am going to try resetting the camera to see what happens.

 

By the way, do you use a dedicated flash? I wonder if that makes a difference. I am using an old Sunpack thyristor flash with no dedication, just a plain ol standard synch.

Edited December 27, 2017 by jay968

[jay968]

Well I tried resetting. Made no difference. Frankly I cannot believe pressing half way down on the shutter release makes no difference. The camera is stopping down to its shooting aperture and is in manual. 1/2000 at f16 in a dim room looks properly exposed in the EVF?? Very strange.

Edited December 27, 2017 by jay968

[HighlandK]

I didn’t mean to imply that it looked ‘properly’ exposed - see my comments below - just bright. I have a SF40 and when mounted does not exhibit what you describe. What happens when you set in manual an exposure what would be way under exposed and there is no flash mounted? If I do that both indoors and outside with ISO 100, that is not auto ISO I get no real difference in the EVF apart from the red lines at the bottom warning me of massive under exposure. In other words my EVF does not show under or over exposure in terms of actual brightness. The bars/lines at the bottom and the histogram show me that.

 

Whether mine or yours is behaving normally I prefer the way mine operates! After all given you can set brightness in EVF and LCD that would distort the effect of the exposure and thus A histogram is far more reliable.

 

Interested to hear from others as to the default behaviour.

Edited December 27, 2017 by HighlandK

[uffehagen]

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I didn’t mean to imply that it looked ‘properly’ exposed - see my comments below - just bright. I have a SF40 and when mounted does not exhibit what you describe. What happens when you set in manual an exposure what would be way under exposed and there is no flash mounted? If I do that both indoors and outside with ISO 100, that is not auto ISO I get no real difference in the EVF apart from the red lines at the bottom warning me of massive under exposure. In other words my EVF does not show under or over exposure in terms of actual brightness. The bars/lines at the bottom and the histogram show me that.

 

Whether mine or yours is behaving normally I prefer the way mine operates! After all given you can set brightness in EVF and LCD that would distort the effect of the exposure and thus A histogram is far more reliable.

 

Interested to hear from others as to the default behaviour.

 

Mine behaves as described by jay968

[uffehagen]

I didn’t mean to imply that it looked ‘properly’ exposed - see my comments below - just bright. I have a SF40 and when mounted does not exhibit what you describe. What happens when you set in manual an exposure what would be way under exposed and there is no flash mounted? If I do that both indoors and outside with ISO 100, that is not auto ISO I get no real difference in the EVF apart from the red lines at the bottom warning me of massive under exposure. In other words my EVF does not show under or over exposure in terms of actual brightness. The bars/lines at the bottom and the histogram show me that.

 

Whether mine or yours is behaving normally I prefer the way mine operates! After all given you can set brightness in EVF and LCD that would distort the effect of the exposure and thus A histogram is far more reliable.

 

Interested to hear from others as to the default behaviour.

 

What if you take of the SF40? I use a Elinchrome trigger, where the display gets very dark when focusing (half press) 

[seratti]

I believe your conclusion is correct, there is no way to turn off the 'preview picture effect' in the EVF. This seems like a huge oversight, which could easily be fixed with the frequent firmware updates that Leica distributes.

 

I can only assume Leica's response to be, 'do not use flash with this camera'. 

[HighlandK]

What if you take of the SF40? I use a Elinchrome trigger, where the display gets very dark when focusing (half press)

 

The situation I described was without the flash mounted. Mounting the SF40 doesn’t make it perform differently. As I recall it was exactly the same with my Elinchrom trigger and studio strobes. In all circumstances the EVF does not show the actual exposure in terms of its brightness before or after half shuuter press. I don’t know if the most recent firmware update made a difference since that was installed on purchase (new). I am away at the moment and will try the Elinchrom when I get home to refresh my memory.

[jay968]

Whether I have a flash installed on the camera or not, the behavior is the same. In manual exposure mode in a dimly lit room, once I press half way down on the shutter release, the lens aperture stops down and if the room is dim enough it gives me a very dark view, sometimes completely black. Somehow I think that the only way anyone would see a bright enough view like this would be if the room wasn't all that dark unless of course the shutter speed and f-stop were set to guarantee a proper exposure even without using a flash. Then of course the view is good and bright. However, I am talking about using a flash not as a fill but as the only power source. Here I would want an exposure allowing for the ambient light to be too dark. On other mirrorless cameras (Fuji, Sony etc) a menu options allows for the camera to be set to show a good view or the darkened view. Seems the Q lacks this, but it seems to me that this is an essential option if one is going to use this camera with flash as the main (or especially ONLY) light source.

By the way, my Q has the latest (2.0) firmware.

 

HighlandK, if your camera really operates the way you describe, I want to know where I can get one like that! You're right, that IS the preferred way. If mine has bars at the bottom showing massive under exposure, I see little or nothing in the scene through the EVF. It is basically useless with a flash like this. I CAN compose and focus and then lift my finger up to view and make final composition adjustments, but as soon as I press half way down again everything goes dark and I am not really seeing what the final shot will be at all.

Edited December 27, 2017 by jay968

[uffehagen]

Whether I have a flash installed on the camera or not, the behavior is the same. In manual exposure mode in a dimly lit room, once I press half way down on the shutter release, the lens aperture stops down and if the room is dim enough it gives me a very dark view, sometimes completely black. Somehow I think that the only way anyone would see a bright enough view like this would be if the room wasn't all that dark unless of course the shutter speed and f-stop were set to guarantee a proper exposure even without using a flash. Then of course the view is good and bright. However, I am talking about using a flash not as a fill but as the only power source. Here I would want an exposure allowing for the ambient light to be too dark. On other mirrorless cameras (Fuji, Sony etc) a menu options allows for the camera to be set to show a good view or the darkened view. Seems the Q lacks this, but it seems to me that this is an essential option if one is going to use this camera with flash as the main (or especially ONLY) light source.

By the way, my Q has the latest (2.0) firmware.

 

HighlandK, if your camera really operates the way you describe, I want to know where I can get one like that! You're right, that IS the preferred way. If mine has bars at the bottom showing massive under exposure, I see little or nothing in the scene through the EVF. It is basically useless with a flash like this. I CAN compose and focus and then lift my finger up to view and make final composition adjustments, but as soon as I press half way down again everything goes dark and I am not really seeing what the final shot will be at all.

 

For me, the problem is not that big. I set the camera on a tripod, and compose the photo, and then press the shutter, looking up from the camera

[HighlandK]

 

HighlandK, if your camera really operates the way you describe, I want to know where I can get one like that! You're right, that IS the preferred way. If mine has bars at the bottom showing massive under exposure, I see little or nothing in the scene through the EVF. It is basically useless with a flash like this. I CAN compose and focus and then lift my finger up to view and make final composition adjustments, but as soon as I press half way down again everything goes dark and I am not really seeing what the final shot will be at all.

 

I have taken some iPhone photos of the LCD showing massive under exposure ISO 100, f16 1/1000. The first is without a half press of the shutter , the second is with shutter half pressed having gained focus and the third is the image as taken - surprisingly it is black!! Room with halogen downlighters at night. At ISO 100 the correct exposure in the room is 1/8 at f1.7. The brightness level is more or less accurate and certainly the half press makes no difference. Don't ask what I have done to deserve this if mine is totally non standard!!! 

 

Because of image size I expect there will be three separate posts.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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[HighlandK]

Image 2 with half shutter press and image 3 the "photograph" as taken

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[SonomaBear]

It's as if the flash failed to fire, so I wonder if the flash did not sync properly.  Even leaf shutters have a sync period.  Researched the manual (dang Leica, please update this thing!)

 

Try again with Shutter priority set at 1/250th, f/1.7, ISO whatever

 

Page 252: Shutter speeds 30s to 1⁄2000s with mech. Shutter 1⁄2500s to 1⁄16000s with electr. shutter, in 1⁄3 increments, flash synchronization up to 1⁄500s

 

f/16 at 1/1000 using ISO 100 is a bit extreme but still a sync'd flash should have illuminated the scene.

 

Are there any strange settings in the "Flash Settings" menu?  Flash exposure compensation?

 

Page 194: When set to M, the flash exposure must be adjusted to the aperture and distance values specified by the camera by setting a correspondingly reduced power output level.

[jmschuh]

Image 2 with half shutter press and image 3 the "photograph" as taken

 

 

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

your Thumb button is set to "AEL". So you don't define and store the exposure with half press of the Shutter release button and don't get a preview of the exposure. If you change the function of the Thumb button to "AFL", "AEL/AFL" or "Digital Zoom" the display gets dark when you half press the Shutter release button, because the exposure is stored with the half press of the Shutter release button and a preview of the exposure is shown.

 

This behavior is independent of the flash setting.

 

For studio situations with flash just choose the "AEL" function for the Thumb button. This prevents the storing of the exposure with half press of the Shutter button and without storing the exposure you don't get an exposure preview. To store "AEL" (with the thumb button) in "M" mode makes no sense, but this is the option to get a bright display when storing the focus with the Shutter release button.

 

It's not a trick, it's a Leica. ;-)

 

Regards,

 

Jens

[marchyman]

I have taken some iPhone photos of the LCD showing massive under exposure ISO 100, f16 1/1000....

 

 

I think you and jay968 have a different idea as to what makes a "dimly lit room".

 

Meter on something where the proper exposure is around 1 second at f/1.7, ISO 100.  Now increase the shutter speed until the exposure is at least three stops underexposed (lines turn red).   Half press the shutter.

 

On my Q the viewfinder will go very dark when the shutter is half pressed.  Maybe I can see what I'm shooting, maybe not.

Edited December 28, 2017 by marchyman

[jay968]

Mazeppa, thank you so much for noticing that this is how Andy has his thumb button set.I just tried shooting like this with flash and it worked like a charm!! THIS is how to use the Q with flash and manual exposure. Thank you again!!

Edited December 29, 2017 by jay968

[uffehagen]

Mazeppa, thank you so much for noticing that this is how Andy has his thumb button set.I just tried shooting like this with flash and it worked like a charm!! THIS is how to use the Q with flash and manual exposure. Thank you again!!

Mazeppa, thank you so much for noticing that this is how Andy has his thumb button set.I just tried shooting like this with flash and it worked like a charm!! THIS is how to use the Q with flash and manual exposure. Thank you again!!

Just tried that last night :-)

Edited December 29, 2017 by uffehagen

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[HighlandK]

Hi Andy,

 

your Thumb button is set to "AEL". So you don't define and store the exposure with half press of the Shutter release button and don't get a preview of the exposure. If you change the function of the Thumb button to "AFL", "AEL/AFL" or "Digital Zoom" the display gets dark when you half press the Shutter release button, because the exposure is stored with the half press of the Shutter release button and a preview of the exposure is shown.

 

This behavior is independent of the flash setting.

 

For studio situations with flash just choose the "AEL" function for the Thumb button. This prevents the storing of the exposure with half press of the Shutter button and without storing the exposure you don't get an exposure preview. To store "AEL" (with the thumb button) in "M" mode makes no sense, but this is the option to get a bright display when storing the focus with the Shutter release button.

 

It's not a trick, it's a Leica. ;-)

 

Regards,

 

Jens

Brilliant! You have provided the answer, Jens - not that I wanted mine to show the exposure in the EVF. I am happy with my set up but you have added to my and others’ knowledge base. I am a big fan of this forum - no bitching or putting down just solid helpful advice and comment which carries us all forward.

 

In answer to Sonomabear there was no flash mounted - purely a manual exposure to clarify what I was seeing and to show others what I had described in words earlier.