M10 Lens Quest

[MT0227]

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If you are looking for a 28mm I suggest you read the links below before making  a choice.   Overall, the best bang for your $$ appears to be the 28 2.8 based on everything I've read.  It's a matter of where you want to spend your money from there and if you really need it.

 

 

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-58/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-55/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-54/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-59/

[Simon]

Don’t discount the Summaron 28 either just because it’s a “budget” retro lens. The pictures I’ve seen from it here are gorgeous. It has a retro vibe to the colours, nice and saturated and rich but also very sharp and super compact.

 

Yes it’s kind of a dedicated daytime or outdoor lens but there’s nothing wrong with that. You can use it to seek out nice sunny or contrasts moments. I bet you’ll get a lot of looks and comments on it too if you like that sort of thing.

[JDFlood]

Johno, I have had a chance to us my new Zeiss 28mm f2.8. I see what you like about it’s look. It looks more instrument like, more analytical. I was a scientist for ten years, I appreciate that. I think that is what you are reacting to. I have been shooting my M10 daily and am letting it take me where it wants to go. The recurring theme is mood. That system keeps drawing me into shooting emotion. The reason in part is it’s detailed color rendition in the lowlights. Also sharpness is really key in the transition from focus to unfocus, as opposed to making sharpness itself the center of attention. More and more I am starting to see the value of the Leica combo as being more artistically pleasing and Zeiss being more analytical. Maybe you will prefer the analytical side. Btw, what finally got me to buy the M10 is that I had wanted to try the Leica lenses, and my Fuji Xpro-2 would have been good. But I read enough that the combo of Camera and lens had great synergy... maybe I am fulfilling my own theory, but seem to be finding that true. At least for me, I am going to leave the analytical work to my D800... which tests out at the highest level of sharpness (for the camera) and let the M10/Leica lenses keep me going down the emotional / artistic path. Anyway, this is my experience. I may try the Zeiss on my D800.

 

 

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[Johno]

If you are looking for a 28mm I suggest you read the links below before making  a choice.   Overall, the best bang for your $$ appears to be the 28 2.8 based on everything I've read.  It's a matter of where you want to spend your money from there and if you really need it.

 

 

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-58/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-55/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-54/

 

http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-59/

 

 

Thanks

 

Those were very informative links and much appreciated.

 

 

Don’t discount the Summaron 28 either just because it’s a “budget” retro lens. The pictures I’ve seen from it here are gorgeous. It has a retro vibe to the colours, nice and saturated and rich but also very sharp and super compact.

Yes it’s kind of a dedicated daytime or outdoor lens but there’s nothing wrong with that. You can use it to seek out nice sunny or contrasts moments. I bet you’ll get a lot of looks and comments on it too if you like that sort of thing.

 

 

It's a very interesting lens, but it seems severely limited with f5.6.

 

 

Johno, I have had a chance to us my new Zeiss 28mm f2.8. I see what you like about it’s look. It looks more instrument like, more analytical. I was a scientist for ten years, I appreciate that. I think that is what you are reacting to. I have been shooting my M10 daily and am letting it take me where it wants to go. The recurring theme is mood. That system keeps drawing me into shooting emotion. The reason in part is it’s detailed color rendition in the lowlights. Also sharpness is really key in the transition from focus to unfocus, as opposed to making sharpness itself the center of attention. More and more I am starting to see the value of the Leica combo as being more artistically pleasing and Zeiss being more analytical. Maybe you will prefer the analytical side. Btw, what finally got me to buy the M10 is that I had wanted to try the Leica lenses, and my Fuji Xpro-2 would have been good. But I read enough that the combo of Camera and lens had great synergy... maybe I am fulfilling my own theory, but seem to be finding that true. At least for me, I am going to leave the analytical work to my D800... which tests out at the highest level of sharpness (for the camera) and let the M10/Leica lenses keep me going down the emotional / artistic path. Anyway, this is my experience. I may try the Zeiss on my D800.

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I have three Zeiss lenses for my d800 and my favorite is the 100. I also have a 50mm and a 135 mm. The 135 mm is so sharp it could cut glass. It's very heavy and doesn't do much that the 100 mm will not do. The 100 is a very nice 1:2 macro. I like the 50 mm; it also is incredibly sharp with awesome bokeh.

 

 

 

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I am still not feeling the m10 love. It is technically severely limited compared to my D800 or my Sony RX100V, but now that I have a couple of lenses I plan to give it a fair try. I ended up with a new 28mm Summicron f2 and an older Leica 50 mm. S/n 2583808. But I'm still thinking of going with the Zeiss planar instead. I would have bought it, but black was out of stock.

[JDFlood]

 

 

Thanks

 

Those were very informative links and much appreciated.

 

  

 

It's a very interesting lens, but it seems severely limited with f5.6.

 

 

I have three Zeiss lenses for my d800 and my favorite is the 100. I also have a 50mm and a 135 mm. The 135 mm is so sharp it could cut glass. It's very heavy and doesn't do much that the 100 mm will not do. The 100 is a very nice 1:2 macro. I like the 50 mm; it also is incredibly sharp with awesome bokeh.

 

 

 

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I am still not feeling the m10 love. It is technically severely limited compared to my D800 or my Sony RX100V, but now that I have a couple of lenses I plan to give it a fair try. I ended up with a new 28mm Summicron f2 and an older Leica 50 mm. S/n 2583808. But I'm still thinking of going with the Zeiss planar instead. I would have bought it, but black was out of stock.

 

Sounds like it is possible the M10 is just not fitting your style. I could see that. If you really appreciate sharp and cutting edge performance, then Nikon and Sony with their state of the art sensors could be more for you. DXO measurements favored those over Leica M10 by a lot. Measurements are not everything, but sometimes they are. For me composition was everything in my quest for capturing the emotion of being there, I wanted the camera to get out of the way. Nikon and Fuji did that for me while improving performance on all fronts. But now, the M10 is pulling me in to control and appreciate aspects other than the big technical parameters... so I am not as concerned with overall sharpness, dynamic range and obviously auto focus. I am not sure my photos haven't gotten worse... but I am sure, for me, in the long run they will be much better. But, sounds like you will have fun figuring out if this is the right direction for you are not. Look forward to hearing. JD

[Gregm61]

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I am still not feeling the m10 love. It is technically severely limited compared to my D800 or my Sony RX100V, but now that I have a couple of lenses I plan to give it a fair try. I ended up with a new 28mm Summicron f2 and an older Leica 50 mm. S/n 2583808. But I'm still thinking of going with the Zeiss planar instead. I would have bought it, but black was out of stock.

 

You sound like someone like me 20 years ago, had never owned a Leica and just had to try it so you could say you did.

 

"Severely limited compared to the D800...." you did realize that before buying, right?

Edited December 27, 2017 by Gregm61

[Johno]

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I am still not feeling the m10 love. It is technically severely limited compared to my D800 or my Sony RX100V, but now that I have a couple of lenses I plan to give it a fair try. I ended up with a new 28mm Summicron f2 and an older Leica 50 mm. S/n 2583808. But I'm still thinking of going with the Zeiss planar instead. I would have bought it, but black was out of stock.

 

You sound like someone like me 20 years ago, had never owned a Leica and just had to try it so you could say you did.

 

"Severely limited compared to the D800...." you did realize that before buying, right?

Yes. Of course I realized it's a completely different platform.

 

I read so much about how awesome it is to shoot with an m10, and saw so many beautiful photos, and liked the Q, and thought to give it a try. I'm going through a deep (bottomless) depression and it was bought partly to take my mind off things and try something completely different.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Johno

[farnz]

Very sad to hear about your deep depression and I hope that the M10 will help you through it in some way.

 

Pete.

[Jenningsmca]

They discontinued their Classic DSLR line, not the ZM line. Some ZM's have been discontinued like the 4,5/21 and 4/18, but remain available new at some retailers. 

 

Ok, good to know.

[Herr Barnack]

Thanks everyone. A few thoughts in response:

 

 

 

I'm a bit of a pixel peeper, but I like the art too. Trouble is I'm not too special of a photographer, and my own photos don't impress me too much. I'm not aware of the Mandler lenses, and I would love to see examples of the art and romance and glow they produce.

 

Do I have a Mandler lens on the way in the 1970s Summicron 50 mm f2 that's on the way from Central Camera?

 

 

By plastic I meant the focusing tab. Maybe that was aluminum and not plastic. I've shot a couple of images with the 28. Nothing serious. It's a lot of money for something that small!

 

   

 

Partly I was worried that it was the "budget" lens and I was somehow missing something by not having a lens from higher up in their line. Also, I liked the 28 mm f 1.7 in the Q, and I decided to chase that experience by getting a faster 28 mm. (The new f2 Summicron.)

 

 

Thanks for the interesting thought.

 

  

Interesting. What made the Mandler era versions different? What years were that era?

 

To answer a couple of your questions, I cannot see how anyone could possibly be disappointed with the 28mm Summicron. 

 

I had the last 28 'cron before the upgraded current version was released and it was a truly excellent lens.  Word on the street is that the improved 28 'cron is even better.  I have always though that if a person were to have only one 28mm lens for their M camera(s), the choice would be the 28 Summicron ASPH.  For a true 28mm disciple, an outstanding two lens 28mm set would be the 28/2.8 Elmarit and the 28/1.4 Summilux.

 

Regarding the Mandler lenses, post #1 in this thread lists all 26 M lenses designed by the legendary Messr. Mandler, with images posted as examples:  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266277-show-us-some-mandler-magic/

Edited December 28, 2017 by Herr Barnack

[Ko.Fe.]

Hi

 

I'm hoping for saome lens advice. I absolutely love Zeiss on my d800 and I'm looking for at least that quality. But I understand Leica m is all about the fine Leica lenses.

 

I tried a new Summarit-M 35 f2.4 and didn't love it so I sent it back. It see,ed not special. I've ordered a new Summicron-M 28 mm f2 and now I'm pre-regretting that based on the thread here saying the $4195 new one is not much better than the old version. Or is it? I could not tell which view won.

 

A Zeiss planar 50 mm f2 is on the way. Good call?

 

I bought a used early copy of a 90 mm apo ASPH and like it ok. Is it a good call for an m10? Or does it have focus shift probl ms solved by a new version?

 

I'm wondering if the $4195 would be better spent on a Zeiss 28mm f2.8 plus Zeiss 35 mm f 1.4. With money to spare.

 

I like the idea of owning $6,000 and $9,000 lenses but it seems more brand than substance. Why? Plastic!!! Zeiss feels like solid high quality. Leica charges a lot more for lenses with plastic bits. As a guy new to Leica, I think that's weird for $4195.

 

A friend has a 35 mm summilux for sale for $3,800 but I've learned the old version has focus shift. So it scared me off.

 

Regardless, I'm heading toward 28 mm, 50 mm and 90 mm.

 

Did I make a bad call with the new 28mm Summicron?

 

Thanks for your guidance, and patience.

 

 

Sorry, I missed it. The problem with Cosina made ZM lenses is in their durability. It is not so known among those who are buying plenty of lenses and using them by the list of ten on twenty, but known for those who tend to buy few and use only few, if not the only lens. Once it heads this way the Zeiss wobble and ZM worn out focus helicoids comes. The fix is available, but who knows for how long it is going to lasts.

Leica is using composite material in some of the modern lenses. It is not plastic, not metal, but as durable as metal is.

 

I have Summarit-M 35 2.5 and it is the only lens I use most and for couple of years now. I just used it today at -26C, smooth... Everything is great in this lens. Soft and intuitive, one finger handling, size, filter size and Leica character on film and digtial M. Personally, I wouldn't touch ZM lens with ten feet pole, due to their soft metal focus helicoid. But I liked my ZE lens in the past. I'm just not into DSLR this much anymore. I have fast (AF and f2.8) zoom on DSLR now.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Ko.Fe.

[MarkP]

The 28 Summicron ASPH v1 is one of my favourite and most used lenses. I haver not upgraded mine to v2, yet.  

 

I think the Summicron is the best compromise for speed, size and price. I also have a 2.8/28 Elmarit-ASPH - great little lens but a bit too contrasty. I have plenty of Summiluxes but the 28 Summilux does not tempt me.

 

I prefer the more compact hood design of v2 but regardless have always used a more compact hood on my v1.

 

I tested both lenses side-by-side.  In most photographs I really couldn't convince myself there was any significant difference between the two lenses.  They render and colour identically - v2 does not have a 'more modern' look. The corners are a bit better in v2, not that I had thought they were that bad in v1,  and apparently v2 is better corrected with respect to inconsistencies of flat field focus, again not that I'd seen this as a problem in v1. 

 

At some stage I may upgrade to v2. If I was buying now I'd get the current lens regardless.

 

However, if you want to save money get a new-but-old-stock v1 lens rather than a Zeiss.

Or pm me, perhaps I may sell mine for an earlier than planned upgrade to v2 ;-)

 

Mark

[JohnnySeven]

Hi

 

I'm hoping for saome lens advice. I absolutely love Zeiss on my d800 and I'm looking for at least that quality. But I understand Leica m is all about the fine Leica lenses.

 

I tried a new Summarit-M 35 f2.4 and didn't love it so I sent it back. It see,ed not special. I've ordered a new Summicron-M 28 mm f2 and now I'm pre-regretting that based on the thread here saying the $4195 new one is not much better than the old version. Or is it? I could not tell which view won.

 

A Zeiss planar 50 mm f2 is on the way. Good call?

 

I bought a used early copy of a 90 mm apo ASPH and like it ok. Is it a good call for an m10? Or does it have focus shift probl ms solved by a new version?

 

I'm wondering if the $4195 would be better spent on a Zeiss 28mm f2.8 plus Zeiss 35 mm f 1.4. With money to spare.

 

I like the idea of owning $6,000 and $9,000 lenses but it seems more brand than substance. Why? Plastic!!! Zeiss feels like solid high quality. Leica charges a lot more for lenses with plastic bits. As a guy new to Leica, I think that's weird for $4195.

 

A friend has a 35 mm summilux for sale for $3,800 but I've learned the old version has focus shift. So it scared me off.

 

Regardless, I'm heading toward 28 mm, 50 mm and 90 mm.

 

Did I make a bad call with the new 28mm Summicron?

 

Thanks for your guidance, and patience.

Johno, Take a weekend, put away all of your photo gear except for your M10 body, a 50mm Summicron or Planar.  Go wandering around your neighborhood shooting everything and everything forcing yourself to understand what you are  really capable of creating with one lens, and  speed and aperture control.  Stop worrying about the "technical limitations" of a piece of gear. The greatest images of this and the past century where made on gear with inferior specs.  Its what you make of it that makes great images.  Iv worked with some of the best D.O.P.'s on the planet and they all make magic with whatever gear they happen to be using, i've never once heard a great shooter complain about gear.  

Edited December 30, 2017 by JohnnySeven