Thambar-Crazy

[SilentShutter]

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My photo review of the old Leica Thambar in LTM mount on the Leica Monochrom you can find on Steve Huff's website 

 

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2017/12/14/the-old-leica-thambar-90mm-f2-2-in-the-roaring-twenties-by-milan-swolfs/ 

 

On Steves Huff´s "Paranormal" you can even talk to Oskar Barnack about it..........just try the "wonderbox" ! 

[LocalHero1953]

I don't think Lik's portraits above show that this is a B&W lens: I think that they show this lens, more than most, needs light to reveal its peculiarities. The first full face shots are dull because the subject is unlit (indoors?) and one is distracted by the backlight and flare. The shots with the subject in the hat are well lit (outdoors?) and are much more successful. I agree that the OTT background is a bit distracting in colour, but that is a straightforward compositional choice and would be distracting whatever the lens.

 

IMHO, colour photography (including colour portraits and colour Thambar portraits) is always harder work than monochrome, because one has an extra element that is hard to control in the real world. In principle there should be no reason why colour should not make a positive contribution to a composition, but in practice in the hands of mere mortals it often makes a negative contribution*. I don't think this is specific to the Thambar.

 

*Painters can choose their own colour and leave out elements in a scene that are distracting, hence monochrome portraits and other paintings are rare; few people praise the superiority of pencil/pen-and-ink work over colour painting.

Edited December 18, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[farnz]

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I'm not sure I'd be ready to consign the Thambar to being a 'B&W lens'.  All lenses handle colours slightly differently (of course) and the Thambar can produce engaging pastel colours that, to my mind, sit somewhere between my 1947 Carl Zeiss Jena 50/2 Sonnar and my 50/1 Noctilux v4; they're not 'in your face' colours but gentler and more subdued and perhaps suited better to some subjects than others.

 

I had the pleasure of using Susie's LTM Thambar at a forum get together on Saturday (the first time I've used this lens).  Here is a portrait of forum member Myvalko taken with my M10 and the Thambar with centre spot filter at about f/2.4 (there are no aperture click stops on this lens) and at about the closest focus distance.  The raw file had a distinctive blue cast, probably owing to AWB and the complex soup of ambient lighting (tungsten, LED, and daylight), so I rebalanced it in post, dodged lightly to bring the face forward a little from the strong background and applied very light global sharpening to adjust for natural raw 'unsharpness'.

 

It's not a particularly strong portrait but, to my mind, it does show that the Thambar can produce pleasing colour pictures.

 

Pete.

 

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[farnz]

.

For 'balance' here is a black and white treatment of the same portrait.

 

I don't think one is better or worse than the other but undoubtedly some will prefer one over the other (although this isn't an invitation for everyone to state their preference which might tragically derail this thread).

 

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[derleicaman]

Here are some images I made last night with my ltm Thambar.

 

First up, my five week old grandson, color version

 

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[derleicaman]

Here's the B&W version. Much more effective for me.

 

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[derleicaman]

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Here is a shot made outdoors. Again, wide open with the CSF. What looks like ornaments are actually LED Christmas lights. Crazy rendering I have never seen with any other lens.

 

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[derleicaman]

B&W version

 

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[derleicaman]

Finally, Hannukah candles. Again, wide open with CSF. I thought it would be interesting to show the Thambar rendering of a natural flame. The glow coming off of the other subjects is interesting as well. I focused on the figure of Mickey Mouse.

 

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[Milan_S]

Nice captures derleicaman!

 

Thambar LTM on SL during an evening walk in Antwerp 

 

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[tsleica]

I think in most instances..I would like this as a color lens..as I just prefer a real sharp B&W reference point..at some place in the photo..and not fuzz all over uniformly..

Would also be interesting to compare this with a Noct F1.0 and a Summar f2.0. As these produce similar effects wide open. I really like the male portraits..and the way the eyes render...the highlights..

[wattsy]

Here is a shot made outdoors. Again, wide open with the CSF. What looks like ornaments are actually LED Christmas lights. Crazy rendering I have never seen with any other lens.

 

L1001521-2.jpg

 

 

Crazy indeed. In fact, it's an incredible optical effect though I have to ask myself whether, if there was a Photoshop filter that could do the same thing, I'd ever choose to use it.

 

Pete's portrait above is interesting because it seems to be inherently quite sharp (even at F2.4) with only a modest "glow". The baby portrait doesn't work for me but it looks like optimum focus has been missed or camera shake might have come into play?

[Susie]

Would also be interesting to compare this with a Noct F1.0 and a Summar f2.0. As these produce similar effects wide open. I really like the male portraits..and the way the eyes render...the highlights..

 

Hi TS

 

Here is a cropped shot taken last Saturday. The subject is Dan, who has my Thambar on his M9, I'm using his Noctilux 50mm wide

 

open on my MM mk 1

 

:

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I got rather hooked on this lens - bad news for the bank balance!

 

As I mentioned before, I think the Thambar works best when the important part of the shot is the subject (i.e. it really is the subject) and not the bokeh; this requires a quiet background.  But that's just my take on it.  Like everything posted on the forum others are welcome to have their own views; I won't dictate!

 

Susie

Edited December 19, 2017 by Susie

[derleicaman]

Crazy indeed. In fact, it's an incredible optical effect though I have to ask myself whether, if there was a Photoshop filter that could do the same thing, I'd ever choose to use it.

 

Pete's portrait above is interesting because it seems to be inherently quite sharp (even at F2.4) with only a modest "glow". The baby portrait doesn't work for me but it looks like optimum focus has been missed or camera shake might have come into play?

Good observations, wattsy. I have always found the Thambar to be very hit or miss as far as results go. My grandson is a tough subject as he is still rather wobbly and his expressions change in a nano second. Obviously hand-held and one of a series of about ten shots. Some of them had a little better focus, but his posture/expression weren't working. I was looking at the focus patch and moving myself to adjust for optimum focus and expression at the same time. I was shooting at ISO 3200, so camera shake was not an issue. The images of the snowman were done on a tripod, but the ones I did a few days ago of the Barnack plaque were hand-held. I was going for optimum Thambar effect, so wide open with the CSF was the way to go. Having said all of this, I would be happier with a tad more sharpness on the baby picture!

[Exodies]

Crazy indeed. In fact, it's an incredible optical effect though I have to ask myself whether, if there was a Photoshop filter that could do the same thing, I'd ever choose to use it.

<snip>

Exactly. If this was a digital effect rather than optical one (which it quite easily could be if any programmers were motivated) would anyone care to use it? Rather like colourless pictures. Oh. People still do that.

[albertknappmd]

Really excellent results lik, and I am also wondering if the Thambar is really more of a B&W lens too. I find the color images interesting, but not convincing. Perhaps the color images are more distracting, while you are able to concentrate better on the subject with the B&W images. This lens really focuses the old discussion/argument of the merits of color vs. B&W images.

 

As the editor of the LHSA Viewfinder, I would really like to do a feature article on the new vs. old Thambar. I would like to show images from both lenses. I would like to invite those on this thread for their thoughts and ideas for developing this article.

As Sam Gershwin said....

 

Include me in...

 

Albert     

[derleicaman]

Just took a look at the serial number on my original Thambar. Serial production started at 226000. Mine is the 61st one made with a production year of 1934!

[hmathias]

I have been following this tread with great interest. I have not tried the new Thambar yet, but I am very interested to do that. Based on what I have seen on the  examples here, I will venture a modestly informed guess as to what is optically at work here. This lens is designed to exhibit an "excessive" amount of spherical aberration. Which makes it similar to many very early lens designs, on often uncoated lens.  

 

Such spherical aberration would naturally improve (reduce) when the lens is stooped down, (which you can see in most of these pictures) and therefore the image would also get sharper when stopped down.

 

A lens designed to perform this way would naturally be extra sensitive to bright light sources and to lens flare from highlights and hot backlight, as you can see. You would also expect this lens to respond with more sharpness to contrasty lighting on subjects and on portraits, which it does in these examples.

 

The Center Spot Filter makes this halo effect more independent of lens flare and the lens aperture being used. but the downside of the CSF is that it leads to circular "donut" bokeh, due to the shape of center spot. The same way that 5-bladed apertures in old Japanese lenses used to lead to pentagonal shaped bokeh.

 

I am guessing (not having tested this lens) that the circular "donut" bokeh only occurs when the CSF is used. Is this correct?

[tsleica]

Here is a cropped shot taken last Saturday. The subject is Dan, who has my Thambar on his M9, I'm using his Noctilux 50mm wide

 

open on my MM mk 1

 

Hi Susie,

Somehow I think the Noct f1..is a better choice over all for a wide open dreamy look...as the Thambar is so extreme..

Best to have the both of them though... lol...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[epand56]

This is where I really find the Leica's world quite ridiculous.