Stonewall Brigade Posted November 28, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bought a new M10 today. Here was Leica's reaction when I asked about any Cyber Monday sales specials Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/279287-bought-a-new-m10-today-%C2%A0here-was-leicas-reaction-when-i-asked-about-any-cyber-monday-sales-specials/?do=findComment&comment=3405316'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Hi Stonewall Brigade, Take a look here Bought a new M10 today. Here was Leica's reaction when I asked about any Cyber Monday sales specials. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted November 28, 2017 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2017 Not on the M10, but there were discounts at some dealers on other Leica gear, for instance $299 off the SL at B&H. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted November 28, 2017 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2017 Funny but why should they discount when many products are backlogged... Albert 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted November 28, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 28, 2017 My favorite print ad of all times was from Godiva Chocolatier: "Waiting for a sale? How amusing..." 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Brigade Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted November 29, 2017 Funny but why should they discount when many products are backlogged... Albert A for-profit company operating for over 100 years with a capitalistic business model should be able to better control its' supply to better meet customer demand. Anyone having to wait 6-8 months to purchase a new M10 is not being served. Leica makes and delivers superb product that has a clear market demand, and delivers at a level well below an adequate supply, thereby driving up prices that we all keep paying. Yes, you're correct, why should a company with this kind of market success try to offer customers a once a year savings? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 29, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 29, 2017 It wasn't that many years ago that the company was on the verge of bankruptcy, saved by one person's investment. I prefer profitability and long term viability. Discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy. I'm more concerned that the SL has been subject to multiple discounts. I hope that's more a sign of currency rates, market positioning or preparation for another model, and not merely lagging sales. Slow lens releases are troublesome. It would be nice, though, if profits translated into better service (US in particular), quicker product availability and improved customer communications. Jeff 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric1 Posted November 30, 2017 Share #7 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Discounts are bad for luxury items in my opinion. They send the wrong message that products may not be worth what they are being sold for. I think it's good that Leica's aren't discounted very often, it would make people hesitate about purchasing something that could go down on the near term. Part of the positive effect of buying Leica is knowing you've invested in something that will retain its value somewhat, at least with Leica lenses and film cameras. Digital bodies will retain some but not a lot. If you bought the M10 to take photos you won't be disappointed by it. It's amazing. Enjoy it for the next few years while you can until something new comes out. Edited November 30, 2017 by Eric1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtwo Posted November 30, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 30, 2017 My favorite move was Leica raising prices when they couldn't meet basic demand. Actually, they couldn't produce cameras for demo purposes, so they raised prices. Economically speaking, they should have raised prices to 50,000 USD per unit to properly sync the supply demand ratio. I guess we should be grateful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtwo Posted November 30, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 30, 2017 It wasn't that many years ago that the company was on the verge of bankruptcy, saved by one person's investment. I prefer profitability and long term viability. Discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy. I'm more concerned that the SL has been subject to multiple discounts. I hope that's more a sign of currency rates, market positioning or preparation for another model, and not merely lagging sales. Slow lens releases are troublesome. It would be nice, though, if profits translated into better service (US in particular), quicker product availability and improved customer communications. Jeff Hope is not a good strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ_2003 Posted November 30, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 30, 2017 Let's assume that Leica expects the demand during the first year after launch to be 50,000 units and it can manufacture 1,000 units per week. I have made these numbers up and they are just are illustrative and NOT supposed to exactly reflect Leica sales data. In order to "better meet customer demand" they could supply all customers at launch by delaying their launch by 50 weeks and then sell all the cameras at once. Say the net sales price is EUR 5,500 then they would receive EUR 275,000,000 in 50 weeks time which in net present value terms (discounted at a fairly standard weighted average cost of capital of 8%) gives them approx. EUR 255,400,000. On the other hand they could indulge in "for-profits" and "capitalistic" practices and launch on day 1 and then sell 1,000 cameras per week for 50 weeks. In this case their net present value is approx. EUR 264,900,000. The latter strategy gives them a EUR 9,500,000 benefit. Not only have they made quite a lot more profit doing this but they have also delivered cameras up to 50 weeks sooner to those customers who were sufficiently on the ball to order theirs ahead of time. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 30, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 30, 2017 Hope is not a good strategy. I don't make strategy; that's Leica's role. I can hope all I want. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Brigade Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted December 1, 2017 My favorite move was Leica raising prices when they couldn't meet basic demand. Actually, they couldn't produce cameras for demo purposes, so they raised prices. Economically speaking, they should have raised prices to 50,000 USD per unit to properly sync the supply demand ratio. I guess we should be grateful. that would be how the "free market" works; Adam Smith's invisible hand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Brigade Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) It wasn't that many years ago that the company was on the verge of bankruptcy, saved by one person's investment. I prefer profitability and long term viability. Discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy. I'm more concerned that the SL has been subject to multiple discounts. I hope that's more a sign of currency rates, market positioning or preparation for another model, and not merely lagging sales. Slow lens releases are troublesome. It would be nice, though, if profits translated into better service (US in particular), quicker product availability and improved customer communications. Jeff I'd disagree with your comment that "discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy". Because so many prospective M10 customers across the world have had to wait MONTHS to eventually find an available camera, following their pre-order, Leica is artificially manipulating the appearance of "demand" by grossly restricting supply, and thereby keeping prices high. It is not as though the world suddenly purchased a huge volume of available M10s and thus Leica decided there was no need to discount prices. Cyber Monday came and went without any effort to move the M10s that are only now maybe becoming more readily available. Of course, someone will point out that Leica offered a free backpack if you purchased an SL. Isn't that about a $13,000 investment for the SL and one of the SL autofocus lens? Hey, free backpack! Recall, didn't Leica raise the M10's price by $100 or more only a few short months after the camera's initial introductory price, and then had to honor the lower price for the pre-order buyers? But the remaining prospective M10 customers suddenly faced an even higher sale price for a new camera that remained equally unavailable to them. Therefore, our favorite camera makers under-supplies its' customer base (conveniently called limited, meticulous German production), calls it "demand", and thus keeps prices high. That is the Leica business model Edited December 1, 2017 by Stonewall Brigade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 1, 2017 Share #14 Posted December 1, 2017 ... Leica is artificially manipulating the appearance of "demand" by grossly restricting supply, and thereby keeping prices high..... :D 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 1, 2017 Share #15 Posted December 1, 2017 As always there are exceptions to the rule. When I picked my M10 up on Wednesday this week I discovered a pretty good discount had been applied. Now whether it was because I had waited so long, or am a long standing customer, or that I'd been a good boy and hadn't whined about 'where's my camera...', but the price was much less than on the dealers web page, AND I didn't need to pay a non-refundable deposit as I have seen some dealers demand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunos Posted December 1, 2017 Share #16 Posted December 1, 2017 As always there are exceptions to the rule. When I picked my M10 up on Wednesday this week I discovered a pretty good discount had been applied. Now whether it was because I had waited so long, or am a long standing customer, or that I'd been a good boy and hadn't whined about 'where's my camera...', but the price was much less than on the dealers web page, AND I didn't need to pay a non-refundable deposit as I have seen some dealers demand. Wasn't there a price change between announcement and today? Perhaps the dealer honoured the price at the time you went on the waiting list rather than the current retail price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 1, 2017 Share #17 Posted December 1, 2017 I'd disagree with your comment that "discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy". Because so many prospective M10 customers across the world have had to wait MONTHS to eventually find an available camera, following their pre-order, Leica is artificially manipulating the appearance of "demand" by grossly restricting supply, and thereby keeping prices high. It is not as though the world suddenly purchased a huge volume of available M10s and thus Leica decided there was no need to discount prices. Cyber Monday came and went without any effort to move the M10s that are only now maybe becoming more readily available. Of course, someone will point out that Leica offered a free backpack if you purchased an SL. Isn't that about a $13,000 investment for the SL and one of the SL autofocus lens? Hey, free backpack! Recall, didn't Leica raise the M10's price by $100 or more only a few short months after the camera's initial introductory price, and then had to honor the lower price for the pre-order buyers? But the remaining prospective M10 customers suddenly faced an even higher sale price for a new camera that remained equally unavailable to them. Therefore, our favorite camera makers under-supplies its' customer base (conveniently called limited, meticulous German production), calls it "demand", and thus keeps prices high. That is the Leica business model Cyber Monday is a rather unknown phenomenon in Germany, in fact, outside the USA... A for-profit company operating for over 100 years with a capitalistic business model should be able to better control its' supply to better meet customer demand. Anyone having to wait 6-8 months to purchase a new M10 is not being served. Leica makes and delivers superb product that has a clear market demand, and delivers at a level well below an adequate supply, thereby driving up prices that we all keep paying. Yes, you're correct, why should a company with this kind of market success try to offer customers a once a year savings? You mean I should be able to buy a Tesla right out of the shop - and with a discount? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 1, 2017 Share #18 Posted December 1, 2017 I'd disagree with your comment that "discounting products while demand is strong isn't exactly brilliant strategy". Because so many prospective M10 customers across the world have had to wait MONTHS to eventually find an available camera, following their pre-order, Leica is artificially manipulating the appearance of "demand" by grossly restricting supply, and thereby keeping prices high. It is not as though the world suddenly purchased a huge volume of available M10s and thus Leica decided there was no need to discount prices. Cyber Monday came and went without any effort to move the M10s that are only now maybe becoming more readily available. Of course, someone will point out that Leica offered a free backpack if you purchased an SL. Isn't that about a $13,000 investment for the SL and one of the SL autofocus lens? Hey, free backpack! Recall, didn't Leica raise the M10's price by $100 or more only a few short months after the camera's initial introductory price, and then had to honor the lower price for the pre-order buyers? But the remaining prospective M10 customers suddenly faced an even higher sale price for a new camera that remained equally unavailable to them. Therefore, our favorite camera makers under-supplies its' customer base (conveniently called limited, meticulous German production), calls it "demand", and thus keeps prices high. That is the Leica business model Leica already substantially lowered the price of the SL in the US. And if you check around, you'll find dealers like Popflash are selling the SL and the 24-90 as a package for under $9800. Plus, if you paid attention, I already noted that B&H had a $299 discount on the SL for Cyber Monday. As for the rest, we disagree. The M10, arguably the best built digital M to date, was introduced at a price lower than its predecessors. And I haven't yet heard someone here say that a reputable dealer failed to honor that price for those in line, even after it was later raised. But Leica isn't about discounts. Be happy if you find one. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted December 1, 2017 Share #19 Posted December 1, 2017 Cyber Monday is a rather unknown phenomenon in Germany, in fact, outside the USA... You mean I should be able to buy a Tesla right out of the shop - and with a discount? Tesla hasn't been around 100 years. Please stop preaching how wonderful Leica is when any non-warranty repair on a body or lens will take MONTHS !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 3, 2017 Share #20 Posted December 3, 2017 Nor has Leica. It is considerably longer. I fail to see any reference to Leica's wonderfulness in my post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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