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Will Zenit’s Full Frame Mirrorless a Challange to the Leica SL ?

SilentShutter

By SilentShutter
in Leica SL System

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steppenw0lf

steppenw0lf

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It's strange, but a Zenit SL is somewhat irritating for me. Just the idea to depend on russian technology. And the idea to send it to russia for service.

It's simply a uncomfortable feeling - like having an italian or british car (regarding repairs or longevity).  (sorry I hope nobody takes it personally)

 

Another strange thing: The exchange of the logo seems a minor thing, but with the Zenit logo (instead of Leica) it looks really ugly in my eyes. I would probably never get this camera.

 

Similar with other brands - I rather have an older BMW or Mercedes instead of a new Seat or Skoda. (More to my (design) taste, more trust).

In long-term buys (years or decades), I do not like to buy the "cheapest" brand. The money I save at the beginning I usually "loose" over the years with custr satisfaction.

 

As a russian user it makes probably sense to buy local products (Zenit), and so for a person living in the middle of europe it makes also sense to buy local products (which are additionally also high quality).

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steppenw0lf

steppenw0lf

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Apart from brand choices, russia is lately involved in a lot of misinformation and internet scandals (probably also in the american elections, maybe even in the current german elections, also known to have caused havoc in ukranian power plants (via internat attacks)). And generally they are not very cooperative - much less so than 15 years ago.

 

So I am simply not really sure how serious this is   ......    

Or if this is mainly for misinformation ?  (Like some papers circulating in germany among russian emigrants).

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LocalHero1953

LocalHero1953

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It's strange, but a Zenit SL is somewhat irritating for me. Just the idea to depend on russian technology. And the idea to send it to russia for service.

It's simply a uncomfortable feeling - like having an italian or british car (regarding repairs or longevity).  (sorry I hope nobody takes it personally)

 

You've convinced me - I should stop buying all that foreign camera stuff that has to go back to Germany for repair.......

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UliWer

UliWer

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Apart from brand choices, russia is lately involved in a lot of misinformation and internet scandals (probably also in the american elections, maybe even in the current german elections, also known to have caused havoc in ukranian power plants (via internat attacks)). And generally they are not very cooperative - much less so than 15 years ago.

 

So I am simply not really sure how serious this is   ......    

Or if this is mainly for misinformation ?  (Like some papers circulating in germany among russian emigrants).

Sorry, but in this case, no Russian misinformation is involved.

 

The whole story started in a "western" forum, where just one poster made some presumptions after he heard of a radio broadcast where neither Leica nor any rebranded SL were even mentioned. The poster himself said that he didn't understand all of the radio news and made clear he was just presuming.

 

This presumption of a single person in an internet forum was distorted by Petapixel et.al making up some "news" about some Zenit SL.

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276976-zenit-launching-rebranded-leica-sl-never-ever…/?p=3361491

 

Even when there is a lot of misinformation coming out of present Russia, the bla, bla on the www outside Russia is not behind in the race to misinform it's users - just aiming at more bla, bla.

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luigi bertolotti

luigi bertolotti

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Yesterday night, thinking of this odd rumor on "Zenit SL"... I elaborated "inside rumors" exclusively based on my personal story :) :

- I took a Zorky in 1975 - "Soviet-Sonnar" 50mm f2

- And in the years after I took 135, 85, 35, 20... all Russians

- Then (1981) :

 

- Took my first Leica (IIIc body).

- Had all the focals I needed - KMZ - decently compatible

 

- 36 years years after, have an M240 with all the focals I need - Leica, and some of them even very recent (all the basic set 21 35 50 75 90)

- surely won't buy an SL, even if the Platform in itself is intriguing

- Now imagine that in 1 or 2 years a "Russian SL" enters the market - attractive price and capable to take M lenses.

- I could made exactly the INVERSE of what I did 37/38 years ago... :

 

- Take my first Zenit ("SL" body)

- Have all the focals I need - Leica - decently compatible.

 

Won't happen and is just a funny thought, with an elegant parallelism spanning a no short part of my life :) :)

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UliWer

UliWer

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Yesterday night, thinking of this odd rumor on "Zenit SL"... I elaborated "inside rumors" exclusively based on my personal story :) :

- I took a Zorky in 1975 - "Soviet-Sonnar" 50mm f2

- And in the years after I took 135, 85, 35, 20... all Russians

- Then (1981) :

 

- Took my first Leica (IIIc body).

- Had all the focals I needed - KMZ - decently compatible

 

- 36 years years after, have an M240 with all the focals I need - Leica, and some of them even very recent (all the basic set 21 35 50 75 90)

- surely won't buy an SL, even if the Platform in itself is intriguing

- Now imagine that in 1 or 2 years a "Russian SL" enters the market - attractive price and capable to take M lenses.

- I could made exactly the INVERSE of what I did 37/38 years ago... :

 

- Take my first Zenit ("SL" body)

- Have all the focals I need - Leica - decently compatible.

 

Won't happen and is just a funny thought, with an elegant parallelism spanning a no short part of my life :) :)

 

My first camera was a Zenit B - in Germany called "Revueflex B". I got it some 45 years ago. At this time I liked to look at photocatalogues and even went to the Photokina. I  knew the name "Leica" since Wetzlar was only some kilometers from my home.

 

When I saw the prices for Leica (it was the time of the M4)  I found them just ridiculous: they had  no lightmeter, like my Revueflex B - the E was too expensive - and their only advantage was 1/1000 instead of 1/500 - but much more than ten times more expensive and you had to buy a horrendous expensive lens on top. Leica was something for millionaires you could see on TV, but which didn't exist in reality.

 

When the M-A came, I had a very short moment thinking: sell all that other camera staff and start again at the "Revueflex B"-level without lightmeter and all. Then I thought again looking at the price tag - and knew that the idea was ridiculous.

I

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LocalHero1953

LocalHero1953

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Yesterday night, thinking of this odd rumor on "Zenit SL"... I elaborated "inside rumors" exclusively based on my personal story :) :

- I took a Zorky in 1975 - "Soviet-Sonnar" 50mm f2

- And in the years after I took 135, 85, 35, 20... all Russians

- Then (1981) :

 

- Took my first Leica (IIIc body).

- Had all the focals I needed - KMZ - decently compatible

 

- 36 years years after, have an M240 with all the focals I need - Leica, and some of them even very recent (all the basic set 21 35 50 75 90)

- surely won't buy an SL, even if the Platform in itself is intriguing

- Now imagine that in 1 or 2 years a "Russian SL" enters the market - attractive price and capable to take M lenses.

- I could made exactly the INVERSE of what I did 37/38 years ago... :

 

- Take my first Zenit ("SL" body)

- Have all the focals I need - Leica - decently compatible.

 

Won't happen and is just a funny thought, with an elegant parallelism spanning a no short part of my life :) :)

This leads to a more interesting speculation........

 

If Leica wishes to create a large number of photographers (young, like you were) who cannot afford Leica now, but who are committed to the system and aspire to own one when the are old and rich - who should they license the L mount to?

Not Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji: even if those companies wanted it, they are larger companies with agendas that would not match Leica's.

Panasonic is the obvious one, but I suspect an L-mount Panasonic might not be that much cheaper, and may be too much of a quality competitor to Leica.

So why not Zenit? Let them make cheap L-mount bodies and lenses and create an L-mount ecosystem with a range of 'interesting' lenses, much as we now have a Leica M and LTM ecosystem. All those Zenit owners will, when they can afford it, trade up to Leica.

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Peter Branch

Peter Branch

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Leica buys parts from sources all over the world.  Russia has some world-class skills so a visit by a top Leica executive is neither unimaginable nor does it tell us anything specific.

 

I had my entire Leica SL outfit stolen in Spain earlier this year.  The thieves removed the safe in which it was being kept from the apartment - not much one can do about that!

 

Spanish police were convinced that someone had seen me using the camera in the area and had targeted it because it said Leica on the front.

 

Strangely, and coincidentally, I had contemplated covering the Leica script and logo with a Zenith logo in the belief that nobody would be bothered to try to steal such a thing.

 

It seems that was perhaps not such a good idea. 

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UliWer

UliWer

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Being realistic we should acknowledge that the times of "luring" users of cheap cameras to much more expensive gear will not come back.

 

Now photography - whether in Russia, Western-Europe or elsewhere -, doesn't start with hardware limited to photography. Everybody has some sort of cellphone and every cellphone has a camera. If these "starters" will get the idea to use anything else, they'll look for something special: be it LOMO, some brand name well known for the last achievements of electronic technology, or some whimsical deviation like Leica.  

 

A scaled-down Leica - lacking the brand appeal of something nobody has - will not be attractive.

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luigi bertolotti

luigi bertolotti

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A scaled-down Leica - lacking the brand appeal of something nobody has - will not be attractive...

 

AGREE 100%

 

Being realistic we should acknowledge that the times of "luring" users of cheap cameras to much more expensive gear will not come back.

 

AGREE... but only partially : brand managers of major consumer products, in general, are very focused to :

 

1) Build and expand brand loyalty... but also

2) Targeting the buyers of "entry level" products to "scale up" products to be introduced later...

 

But this is quite a different game from what we experienced 40 years ago or so...

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willeica

willeica

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Nobody has mentioned that the current Russian PM is a Leica enthusiast and has been photographed toting M and S models. The 'twin tracks to market' strategy might work. Leica have to recover and monetise development costs for the SL and one way of doing this is to implement the technology in another market stream which potentially has much bigger market size possibilities at a lower price range. Some kind of Leica naming strategy on lenses, such as has happened with Huawei and Panasonic, might help as well. This diversification may also have something to do with the fact that Leica may soon be looking for a strategic financial partner. It is is a difficult market right now with stand alone cameras at the lower price ranges disappearing. This is a way of opening new markets with Leica technology while Leica maintains its own 'exclusive' high price brand.

 

Will it happen? Will it work? Only time will tell.

 

William

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Irakly Shanidze

Irakly Shanidze

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Nobody has mentioned that the current Russian PM is a Leica enthusiast and has been photographed toting M and S models. The 'twin tracks to market' strategy might work. Leica have to recover and monetise development costs for the SL and one way of doing this is to implement the technology in another market stream which potentially has much bigger market size possibilities at a lower price range. Some kind of Leica naming strategy on lenses, such as has happened with Huawei and Panasonic, might help as well. This diversification may also have something to do with the fact that Leica may soon be looking for a strategic financial partner. It is is a difficult market right now with stand alone cameras at the lower price ranges disappearing. This is a way of opening new markets with Leica technology while Leica maintains its own 'exclusive' high price brand.

 

Will it happen? Will it work? Only time will tell.

 

William

 

What do you mean, nobody has mentioned? While Medvedev was a president, his acceptance of S2 in 2011 as a gift spawned a protracted scandal in Russian media, which immensely helped Leica brand recognition across the former Soviet Union. Knowing his soft spot for high-tech projects, I would not be surprised to learn that he has a stake in this Zenit thing.

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frame-it

frame-it

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Nobody has mentioned that the current Russian PM is a Leica enthusiast and has been photographed toting M and S models. The 'twin tracks to market' strategy might work. Leica have to recover and monetise development costs for the SL and one way of doing this is to implement the technology in another market stream which potentially has much bigger market size possibilities at a lower price range. Some kind of Leica naming strategy on lenses, such as has happened with Huawei and Panasonic, might help as well. This diversification may also have something to do with the fact that Leica may soon be looking for a strategic financial partner. It is is a difficult market right now with stand alone cameras at the lower price ranges disappearing. This is a way of opening new markets with Leica technology while Leica maintains its own 'exclusive' high price brand.

 

Will it happen? Will it work? Only time will tell.

 

William

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willeica

willeica

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What do you mean, nobody has mentioned? While Medvedev was a president, his acceptance of S2 in 2011 as a gift spawned a protracted scandal in Russian media, which immensely helped Leica brand recognition across the former Soviet Union. Knowing his soft spot for high-tech projects, I would not be surprised to learn that he has a stake in this Zenit thing.

 

Stay calm. I meant in the discussion here. Some are saying that this Zenit story is a false rumour. I was just pointing that someone at the highest level in Russia has an enthusiasm for Leica and Leica products and that, if Leica wanted to do a JV in Russia, support would probably be forthcoming from that level. This is more or less the same point that you are making.

 

William

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