BEOON advice please - functional checks prior to purchase

[ramarren]

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8 hours ago, 250swb said:

I know what you have in mind when you say copy stands are big, it was my impression as well having used many over the years. But you can get very small copy stands online for not much money (mine was £30) and the perfect size to take a 12x8 light pad and with plenty of adjustment for 35mm and 120 scans

I've looked at quite a few of those. None of them are anywhere near as sturdy and nicely designed as the BEOON, and the BEOON I bought (in the box with magnifier, masks, etc) is a better fit to use with Leica M cameras than anything else ... as well as being complete. You don't need anything other than a light source, camera and standard lens, and a cable release. For other cameras, the value proposition isn't as great, but there's still some added value. The focusing magnifier and the masks alone are a big added value over other stands. 

As long as you're happy with what you bought to do the job, who cares about it being a BEOON or a whatsis? 

[ramarren]

1 hour ago, Doug A said:

One benefit of the Fuji X-T20 I use for digitizing my negatives is the electronic shutter. It has no moving parts, so no vibration. Combined with the Fujifilm Cam Remote app on my iPhone it makes the whole process completely vibration free and very very fast.

Same for both the Leica CL and Hasselblad 907x ... both have options for fully electronic shutter and wireless remote operation. 

[mmx_2]

I'm using the BEOON since a few years and I'm very pleased with it. I would actually not recommend using a summicron 50 for it, this lens (at least in my tests) has a bit of field curvature which may render soft corners. The setup was made for Elmar 50 which is a better choice if you have one. If you want the "best" I would recommend a Schneider 50mm Componon-S or the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon 50mm f2.8. In general I would recommend lenses with "simpler design" or dedicated enlarger lenses like the two mentioned. I've tested numerous on it with mixed results, but by far best results I've recieved with enlarger lenses and an old Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 50mm f2.8 in M42 mount (I use an M42 to M adapter) set at f 5.6. It gives very sharp results and very neutral colors. The old focotars are okish, but there are much better choices out there.

[Guest Nowhereman]

1 hour ago, mmx_2 said:

...I would actually not recommend using a summicron 50 for it, this lens (at least in my tests) has a bit of field curvature which may render soft corners...

The DR Summicron 50 has a substantially flatter field than other versions but, as I noted above, the Focotar II is somewhat better in the corners.
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Edited August 5, 2020 by Nowhereman

[jmahto]

4 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

I'm using the BEOON since a few years and I'm very pleased with it. I would actually not recommend using a summicron 50 for it, this lens (at least in my tests) has a bit of field curvature which may render soft corners. The setup was made for Elmar 50 which is a better choice if you have one. If you want the "best" I would recommend a Schneider 50mm Componon-S or the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon 50mm f2.8. In general I would recommend lenses with "simpler design" or dedicated enlarger lenses like the two mentioned. I've tested numerous on it with mixed results, but by far best results I've recieved with enlarger lenses and an old Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 50mm f2.8 in M42 mount (I use an M42 to M adapter) set at f 5.6. It gives very sharp results and very neutral colors. The old focotars are okish, but there are much better choices out there.

I agree. I use Schneider 50mm Componon-S at f8 with M240 and it is perfect on BEOON.

[jmahto]

13 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I think the main advantage of the BEOON is speed of scanning. It takes me around 5 minutes to get everything set up, usually with my SL601 camera. I can then scan a 36 exposure film in 6 image strips to 36 perfect focus DNG's in around 2 to 3 minutes. This is miles faster than any film scanner will do the job. It is less convenient for mounted slides which is why I use the Novoflex set up. 

Wilson

Agree on the speed. For me I scan primarily negatives and I don't need to touch the focusing once set. I simply place negatives (still in sleeves) directly on the light pad (Kaiser slimlite plano) and it is as fast as click>move>click. In rare case negative sleeves cause moire and if they do then I use negative holder for selective frames. Little bit of extra time but still fast enough. Inverting, organizing and EXIF tagging the photos in LR take more time than scanning.

[Steve Ricoh]

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4 minutes ago, jmahto said:

I agree. I use Schneider 50mm Componon-S at f8 with M240 and it is perfect on BEOON.

Interesting! I have the same set up but when using extension tubes A and D, as recommended for 1:1, the column bottoms so can’t focus. Swop over the componon-S for a 50mm f1.4 asph and focus is easily achieved without running out of column adjustment.

[Steve Ricoh]

4 minutes ago, jmahto said:

I agree. I use Schneider 50mm Componon-S at f8 with M240 and it is perfect on BEOON.

Interesting! I have the same set up but when using extension tubes A and D, as recommended for 1:1, the column bottoms so can’t focus. Swop over the componon-S for a 50mm f1.4 asph and focus is easily achieved without running out of column adjustment.

[J.Nordvik]

If you do not have an electronic shutter I would use a modern Nikon 60mm Micro and a direct attachment to the lens. Or a Nikon Coolscan. 

[jmahto]

15 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

Interesting! I have the same set up but when using extension tubes A and D, as recommended for 1:1, the column bottoms so can’t focus. Swop over the componon-S for a 50mm f1.4 asph and focus is easily achieved without running out of column adjustment.

I had this discussion some time ago in this forum. You are right that it bottoms out when you are trying to focus on a plane *below* BEOON's bottom plate (as in negative held in a holder of certain thickness). This is why I either shoot directly on top of the sheet (no thickness, but small chance of Moire) or keep the negative holder on top of the bottom plate (for this column need to be raised to focus). Slides are not a problem since they sit on top of the slide holder.

[jmahto]

21 minutes ago, J.Nordvik said:

If you do not have an electronic shutter I would use a modern Nikon 60mm Micro and a direct attachment to the lens. Or a Nikon Coolscan. 

I use M240 with BEOON and shoot with 2 sec timer. The entire setup is sturdy enough that I don't need electronic shutter for 0.7 sec exposure that I use.

[J.Nordvik]

"Sturdy enough"

My experience in testing long lenes is that there is a shutter shock.

[Steve Ricoh]

1 hour ago, jmahto said:

I had this discussion some time ago in this forum. You are right that it bottoms out when you are trying to focus on a plane *below* BEOON's bottom plate (as in negative held in a holder of certain thickness). This is why I either shoot directly on top of the sheet (no thickness, but small chance of Moire) or keep the negative holder on top of the bottom plate (for this column need to be raised to focus). Slides are not a problem since they sit on top of the slide holder.

If I want to use the Componon-S for the benefits of an enlarging lens, I use a Lomography DigitaLIZA negative holder and rest it top of the the BEOON base plate. It’s the only way I can retain adjustment of the column height. The downside is the need to reset the position of the neg holder each time I move to the next neg in sequence, plus once I get to the end of the run of 6, it doesn’t balance on the BEOON base any longer. I found another workaround to this by positioning a sheet of glass on top of the base, then the DigitaLIZA on top of the glass. It’s a hell of a compromise to the benefits of the BEOON, so the next time I camera scan I’ll use the 50mm f1.4 camera lens and use it as the Leitz engineers intended. 

[jmahto]

1 hour ago, J.Nordvik said:

"Sturdy enough"

My experience in testing long lenes is that there is a shutter shock.

50mm is not long lens and BEOON setup is very sturdy. I haven't seen any shuttershock in scanning usage.

[jmahto]

32 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

If I want to use the Componon-S for the benefits of an enlarging lens, I use a Lomography DigitaLIZA negative holder and rest it top of the the BEOON base plate. It’s the only way I can retain adjustment of the column height. The downside is the need to reset the position of the neg holder each time I move to the next neg in sequence, plus once I get to the end of the run of 6, it doesn’t balance on the BEOON base any longer. I found another workaround to this by positioning a sheet of glass on top of the base, then the DigitaLIZA on top of the glass. It’s a hell of a compromise to the benefits of the BEOON, so the next time I camera scan I’ll use the 50mm f1.4 camera lens and use it as the Leitz engineers intended. 

Have you tried scanning directly without taking out the negatives from sleeves? This has become my standard (and fastest) way of scanning. Focusing works with Componon-S in this setup. Very rarely I get moire due to direct contact between sleeve and lightpad glass. Maybe one in two rolls and most often I can touch it in LR using cloning tool. I haven't noticed any loss of quality so far. 

I have tried my 50lux ASPH and 50 Elmar collapsible both and they are not sharp corner to corner even after stopping down. This is why I continue to use Companon-S.

Edited August 6, 2020 by jmahto

[J.Nordvik]

50mm is obviously not a long lens, but any digital M will give a shutter shock. When you use BEOON there is no connection between  the film negative and the lens.

[jmahto]

3 hours ago, J.Nordvik said:

50mm is obviously not a long lens, but any digital M will give a shutter shock. When you use BEOON there is no connection between  the film negative and the lens.

In my setup BEOON rests on top of the negative and there is no shake. Even for shooting slides (which rests on the slide holder attachment) there is no shake.

Your setup maybe different. In non-BEOON case, I do agree that M240 has shutter shock and not an ideal choice for shooting long lens with second or more exposure. You can reduce it by not using LV/EVF but certainly electronic shutter (or at least electronic first curtain) is preferable. But here we are talking about BEOON.

[Steve Ricoh]

9 hours ago, jmahto said:

Have you tried scanning directly without taking out the negatives from sleeves? This has become my standard (and fastest) way of scanning. Focusing works with Componon-S in this setup. Very rarely I get moire due to direct contact between sleeve and lightpad glass. Maybe one in two rolls and most often I can touch it in LR using cloning tool. I haven't noticed any loss of quality so far. 

I have tried my 50lux ASPH and 50 Elmar collapsible both and they are not sharp corner to corner even after stopping down. This is why I continue to use Companon-S.

We may have different problems here. To have any chance of focussing the Componon-S using the focusing column and having linear range (by which I mean the column not running out of adjustment height by bottoming) I need to position the negatives closer to the lens, ie on top of the base. Placing the negatives under the base as intended by the BEOON designers, either in the negative masks supplied, or in negative sleeves as you are doing, would result in the negs being too far away from the lens. 

Also worth mentioning, my negatives sleeves are A4 sheets (strips of 6, 6 to a page) and it’s like looking through frosted glass when trying to see if a negative is worth the effort. Always have to remove and lay the strip bare on a light table.

[Doug A]

3 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said:

We may have different problems here. To have any chance of focussing the Componon-S using the focusing column and having linear range (by which I mean the column not running out of adjustment height by bottoming) I need to position the negatives closer to the lens, ie on top of the base. Placing the negatives under the base as intended by the BEOON designers, either in the negative masks supplied, or in negative sleeves as you are doing, would result in the negs being too far away from the lens. 

Also worth mentioning, my negatives sleeves are A4 sheets (strips of 6, 6 to a page) and it’s like looking through frosted glass when trying to see if a negative is worth the effort. Always have to remove and lay the strip bare on a light table.

Alternatively, you could lower the enlarging lens by increasing the length of the extension tube stack. As I wrote back in the early days of this topic (see link below) the A + D extension tube combination will not work for 1:1 reproduction with an enlarging lens. The problem is that the distance between the lens mounting flange and the node or focal point of an enlarging lens is much shorter than that of a Leica M or LTM compatible camera lens.

 

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[Steve Ricoh]

5 minutes ago, Doug A said:

Alternatively, you could lower the enlarging lens by increasing the length of the extension tube stack. As I wrote back in the early days of this topic (see link below) the A + D extension tube combination will not work for 1:1 reproduction with an enlarging lens. The problem is that the distance between the lens mounting flange and the node or focal point of an enlarging lens is much shorter than that of a Leica M or LTM compatible camera lens.

 

Back in 2017 (I think it was going by the date of your referenced post) I tried numerous extension tubes of differing lengths, all with various Leitz part numbers. None worked perfectly, the result being either a cropped negative or the sprockets holes appearing in the reproduction. The reason of course is that 1:1 sets a critical requirement on distance as you point out. The next step for me would be to try a bellows between the BEOON and the enlarger lens.