M Lens Construction

[zeleny]

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Which of the M lenses employ solid brass or solid titanium, or otherwise non-aluminum body construction?

[michaelwj]

Which of the M lenses employ solid brass or solid titanium, or otherwise non-aluminum body construction?

The heavy chrome ones are brass (except for the glass). None are solid titanium ASAIK, just titanium plated or painted. Most are aluminium with brass helicoils.

[UliWer]

The older lenses in "silver" were brass with chrome (or in the very beginning nickel) surface. Today  "silver" ones  usually have alloy mounts. You see the difference as the alloy versions look shinier, the brass versions more matt. The main difference is weight - brass being heavier.

 

 Black painted lenses usually have brass mounts, black anodized versions usually are alloy.

 

I don't know if there are any M lenses with titanium mounts or if they only have titanium surface. Maybe the "50 years" series had titanium Mounts; I have never touched them.

 

Though as with everything produced by Leica there are always exceptions. E.g. the 1:2.8/35mm Summaron as well as the first version of the 35mm Summicron are "silver" but they look different than  their 50mm contemporaries or even the 1:3.5/35mm Summaron. They have an "alloy" look. I am not sure what they are really made of. The 35mm Summicron asph. has been offered in silver brass as well as alloy versions.  

[01af]

In the current line-up, only the Summaron-M 28 mm, the Summicron-M 35 mm Asph, and the Summilux-M 50 mm Asph are silver-chromed brass. All others are black-anodised or silver-anodised aluminum.

 

Older lenses include more silver-chromed brass versions as well as black-painted brass and, usually as special editions, other materials and finishes.
 

[Mute-on]

In the current line-up, only the Summaron-M 28 mm, the Summicron-M 35 mm Asph, and the Summilux-M 50 mm Asph are silver-chromed brass. All others are black-anodised or silver-anodised aluminum.

 

Older lenses include more silver-chromed brass versions as well as black-painted brass and, usually as special editions, other materials and finishes.

 

This is inaccurate. The current 35 Summicron ASPH is aluminium in both black and silver.

 

The current silver 50 Summicron and "black chrome" 50 Summilux are brass, as are all prior generation silver lenses except the Summarit range.

[zeleny]

What about the recent black chrome versions of the Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH and Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH?

[zeleny]

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I don't know if there are any M lenses with titanium mounts or if they only have titanium surface. Maybe the "50 years" series had titanium Mounts; I have never touched them.

I hear tell that the “50 years” commemorative M7 cameras have titanium top and bottom plates. I am not sure about the lenses.

[UliWer]

Some months ago there were three versions of the 35mm Summicron asph. in the catalogue:

 

black, aluminum (11673), silbern aluminium (11674) and silver Chrome (11882). No.11882 is the older one with brass - not any longer in the current list.

 

And when it comes to Leica one should be careful before one says "all":

 

I think the "old" silver 1:4.5/135 Hektor - produc ed since some years after the war - as well as the 1:4/135 Elmar were already made in aluminium. Same - though I am not completely sure - for the 1:4/90 mm Elmar - rigid version. The collapsible version seems to be in brass.   

[TRIago]

35mm cron asph silver v1 is brass. v2 is not.

 

 

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[stevesurf]

I hear tell that the “50 years” commemorative M7 cameras have titanium top and bottom plates. I am not sure about the lenses.

 

Yes, the lenses' outer parts are Ti, not painted a Ti color - a wonderful combination with a Ti M7

 

[zeleny]

Yes, the lenses' outer parts are Ti, not painted a Ti color - a wonderful combination with a Ti M7

 

Lovely, thanks. Are these lenses still available anywhere?

[dugby]

I have this rare, current design lens.

 

" LHSA Summilux-M 50mm 1.4 ASPH "  which is solid brass.  

 

Quite heavy and has that cold metal feeling when touched, and a delight to use.

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Would anyone have a reference from Leica where it says that these lenses have titanium bodies & are not titanium plating on another material?

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Dugby,

 

Nice lens.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[james.liam]

I had thought that all TI items were painted on, none are actually the metal itself.

[zeleny]

I had thought that all TI items were painted on, none are actually the metal itself.

In 2004, Leica made 500 cameras numbered between 3000001 and 3000500, commemorating the 50th Leica M anniversary. There was an additional batch of 50 cameras, each engraved with a different year of M production. The M7 Titanium “50 Jahre M-System” single lens kit was a limited edition of 500 sets, whereas the three lens kit was a limited edition of 50 sets. The single lens kit came with a newly-designed Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH lens made of solid titanium. The three lens kit came with a Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH, a Summicron 28mm f/2 ASPH and an Apo-Summicron 90mm f/2 ASPH lenses made of solid titanium. All inner and outer metal parts of the Leica M7 Titanium were made of solid titanium, including the top deck, the baseplate, and all major interior components and exterior controls.

[stevesurf]

Lovely, thanks. Are these lenses still available anywhere?

Hi Zeleny, these were only made in extremely limited sets, as in the 50 M7 Ti, but they show up every so often at several hundred thousand dollars!

 

Hello Everybody,

 

Would anyone have a reference from Leica where it says that these lenses have titanium bodies & are not titanium plating on another material?

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

M9+35mm in Ti metal

 

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9186821440/leicam9titanium

 

M7 + 35 Ti

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-M7-0-72-M-50mm-f-1-4-ASPH-50th-anniversary-titanium-edition-HK6741X-/311833951758?hash=item489ac07e0e:g:AUcAAOSwmtJXUUhk

 

Current Special Editions (anodised Ti)

 

https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M-Special-Editions

[henning]

Most of Leica's lenses of the last 30 or so years are all combinations of metals. The ones with brass barrels (many 'silver' ones or black painted ones) have aluminum helicoids while the black anodized lenses usually have aluminum barrels and brass helicoids. There are no 'solid' brass or aluminum lenses. The use of the two metals together insures long lasting, non binding focussing action. As the aluminum alloy is both lighter and generally stronger than the brass, the mainly aluminum lenses are preferable in practice, no matter how coloured.

 

In any case, the use of titanium for internal components of the lens would be both expensive and counter productive, because titanium is one of the worst metals for helicoids, as they would tend to be rough and wear out quickly, or rather the other part of the helicoid would wear out. Titanium on titanium is a non-starter.

[UliWer]

Most of Leica's lenses of the last 30 or so years are all combinations of metals. The ones with brass barrels (many 'silver' ones or black painted ones) have aluminum helicoids....

Are you sure?

 

Looking at the rear end of my "silver" (brass) 50mm Summicron (last version) or 35mm Summicron (version 4) I see "golden" - i.e. raw brass coloured - helicoids. The same for all older chrome or nickel lenses down to the early thirties.

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[henning]

Are you sure?

 

Looking at the rear end of my "silver" (brass) 50mm Summicron (last version) or 35mm Summicron (version 4) I see "golden" - i.e. raw brass coloured - helicoids. The same for all older chrome or nickel lenses down to the early thirties.

 

Usually the lenses have an outside barrel of brass, and for non-rotating lenses, which include almost all recent ones there is an interior helicoid which is aluminum and then the innermost helicoid is again brass. For non-rotating lenses two sets of interlocking helicoids are necessary at minimum, i.e., three pieces.

 

Here's the MATE, for an extreme example: https://goo.gl/yBR6FL  The yellow pieces are brass, the white (or bright. pieces aluminum.

 

Even better, here's the MATE and the Summilux 50/1.4 ASPH. Note the metal colours again. The Summilux has of course a lot more complex construction than your 35mm Summicron due to its floating elements which require further helicoids. I'm sorry, but I couldn't find a section picture of your Summicron just now. Note that the 50/1.4 Black anodized ASPH also has a mount made of brass as that is more suitable for chroming (hardening); a good example of using the most appropriate material.