Edgy01 Posted June 28, 2017 Share #1 Posted June 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is it just me? Or are any of you out there experiencing a significant number of issues which appear software-based, which indicates to me somewhat immature software in this camera? I'm new to the digital world of Leica, but not to Leica. I've been using Leitz optics since the early 1970s and love the manual film cameras like my Leica MP and my several Leicaflex SL and SL2 (mot) cameras. Since there is no need for software, per se, in those cameras, perhaps Leica is relatively new to the world of software development. I have version 3 on my Leica SL and I got it that way--pre-loaded, and supposedly ready to roll. BUT, I'm running into issues with a variety of things that makes me doubt the efficacy of their software developers. Examples that I have discovered in my short time with the camera: EXIF data lacks the elevation data that normally would be parsed from the GPS data. Inability to function via the Leica SL App. The camera simply cannot stay linked to a viable (and very strong) WIFI channel. Inconsistency on EXIF data with respect to M lenses mounted via the Leica M to SL adapter. It's like the luck of the draw. Sometimes you get the f/stop in use, and sometimes you don't. Short cut assignments. I have assigned ISO to my FN key, yet, it doesn't take. It reverts to white balance. This is despite several times setting it for ISO. I got it to work for awhile, and now it won't work at all. So, anyone else out there have any PIRs to share (Program Incident Reports), or SDRs (Software Deficiency Reports)? Does Leica actually have a place to go to report PIRs or SDRs? If there is already a discussion on this please excuse my novice posting. (But please, refer me to where to go for this info). Finally, is this a popular forum for things Leica and the Leica SL? I really don't want to deal with a forum that gets a posting perhaps once a month or so... TIA, dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 Hi Edgy01, Take a look here Software Bugs. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digitalfx Posted June 28, 2017 Share #2 Posted June 28, 2017 M lenses have no way to communicate with the body (other than with the manual lens coding which only supplies lens specs)? The f-stop data has always been estimated. In the current fw Leica has chosen to omit the data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 28, 2017 Share #3 Posted June 28, 2017 There are two threads that are popular and frequently-visited places to report puzzling features of Leica SL firmware: one on experiences with version 3.0 and another on wishes for version 4 (actually 3.n). These are read by the forum moderators and summarized to Leica, and at times Leica reads them as well. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted June 28, 2017 Share #4 Posted June 28, 2017 1. Leica have chose not to include elevation data ..... applies to all their cameras with GPS 2. The SL app works fine used with a phone or tablet over a few metres ..... it was not designed to work over longer distances. Unless you turn off 'sleep mode' on the camera it will disconnect if the camera is taking a nap. It has been a flaky piece of software in the past but beta testing before release showed it to be much more stable and reliable. 3. F stop data on M lenses is a guess based on the difference between the sensor measurement and from the light sensor on the camera body. It is no longer displayed on the camera but should still be in the exif data. Make sure the M lens is correctly positioned on the L-M adapter ...... if rotated only a fraction too much or too little it can fail to register the lens and hence no F stop data will be generated. I have several M lenses where this occurs unless fitted carefully and is only obvious when looking at the photos later in LR. 4. ISO assignment to FN works fine ...... and sticks ..... but these things are easily and inadvertently changed, particularly if you have not saved it as a fixed profile that you can recall later ...... most 'vanishing' settings are due to not setting up profiles logically and comprehensively at the outset. Every time you make a change that you wish to keep, save it as an updated profile. Also .... the FN button is an awkward one to use and if the press is too short it 'appears' to do nothing in most circumstances unless you spot the small green dot and f symbol on the info bar. This is unlikely to be a firmware issue ...... more likely something to do with the combination of settings you have. Leica have not altered this aspect of the firmware since release and no others have reported problems. In less polite speak .... probably user error..... The SL functions unlike the majority of cameras out there ...... once you get familiar with the way Leica does things (rightly or wrongly) you may see some sense in how things are arranged Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 28, 2017 Share #5 Posted June 28, 2017 Apart from the SL app I don't see these issues as bugs. I find the SL app no worse than the Olympus equivalent, the only other one I have experience of. It works, but only within a limited range. I wish it worked at greater distances. Leica Image Shuttle for Windows, OTOH, is buggy - I find it unusable on my Surface Pro because the fonts are screwed up. I reported this twice, but it is not yet sorted. All the others are either design choices which you may not like, or, like the M lens/f-stop reporting, beyond the laws of physics to resolve. I don't have any problems with non-sticky short cut key assignments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Posted June 28, 2017 Share #6 Posted June 28, 2017 I have assigned ISO to my FN key, yet, it doesn't take. It reverts to white balance. This is despite several times setting it for ISO. I got it to work for awhile, and now it won't work at all. In video mode the FN-button is always 'grey card' and cannot be configured. Do you mean this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Posted June 28, 2017 Share #7 Posted June 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does Leica actually have a place to go to report PIRs or SDRs? https://us.leica-camera.com/Contact customer.care@leica-camera.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 28, 2017 Share #8 Posted June 28, 2017 Let's just call them "bug reports" rather than introducing two more acronyms, eh? The L-camera-forum is quite active. If you spent some time reading threads first, you'd probably have noticed that. Hunt around the SL forum and you'll find several threads that deal with firmware 3.0 release issues, firmware 4.0 wishes, etc. It's a big forum so there are many threads here ... many many topics have been the subject of a lot of discussion since the SL was first released in November 2015. Many of us were amongst the first owners and users. Ask questions first before making accusations. The likelihood is great that whatever a newcomer sees has been seen and dealt with long before... Your observations: EXIF data lacks the elevation data that normally would be parsed from the GPS data. This is a choice by Leica, not a bug. You could send a feature enhancement request to Leica. Inability to function via the Leica SL App. The camera simply cannot stay linked to a viable (and very strong) WIFI channel. The function and reliability of the Leica SL app is strongly dependent on a) what kind of hardware it's running on, how well that hardware's WiFi works, c) how many other apps on that hardware are competing for cpu and RAM space, d) the quality of the network you're attaching to (if using an existing network), e) the SL App's host distance from the network transceiver, f) the strength and distance from the SL's WiFi transceiver if the camera (if the camera is being used as a standalone hotspot), et cetera. My own experience with it running on a range of Apple equipment (iPhone 6, iPad mini3, iPad Pro 9, and iPad Pro 12, all on current iOS) has been excellent, both connected to my home WiFi network and with the SL operating standalone at distances of up to 20 feet. Quick connection, no drops, etc. I just finished a shoot which involved several hours of tabletop work, all done controlling the SL with the SL app connected through my WiFi network. Flawless performance end to end ... Inconsistency on EXIF data with respect to M lenses mounted via the Leica M to SL adapter. It's like the luck of the draw. Sometimes you get the f/stop in use, and sometimes you don't. Any adapted lens on the SL requires that the SL estimate aperture since there is no mechanical or electronic connection between the lens and the body that serves aperture setting information . Leica decided with firmware 3 that there was no point to providing incorrect aperture in the viewfinder ... anyone needing to know the aperture can see it directly on the lens. I believe that the EXIF data does include the estimate but don't have my LR database here to confirm that. Short cut assignments. I have assigned ISO to my FN key, yet, it doesn't take. It reverts to white balance. This is despite several times setting it for ISO. I got it to work for awhile, and now it won't work at all. This has never been a problem. First, are you checking the FN key in still or video mode? In video mode, it is always set to white balance and not changeable. Second, are you sure that when you're setting the values, you haven't inadvertently cancelled the setting by exiting the customization setup mode incorrectly? This is a common newcomer error. Welcome to the forum. Do ask questions when you run into problems and/or don't understand something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy01 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted June 28, 2017 Thanks for all of the tips. As a Leica-digital newbie I figured that most of these issues had been brought up before but simply didn't find them yet. New acronyms--sorry, ex military. We live for our acronyms. "Bug report" is easy! I'm sure many of my issues are novice user system interface shortcomings (i.e., me). Will keep plugging along. I know that Leica, like many manufacturers, has their way of doing things and implementing them in their designs. And we all have to adjust! Thanks, again, to you all. Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 28, 2017 Share #10 Posted June 28, 2017 I would agree about the SL App. I cannot get either of my iPads, an Air 2 and a 12.9 Pro to connect with the SL App, with the App not finding the camera and just endlessly searching. It is not the network as if you set the SL to web connection, the same iPads on the same network connect to the IP address and can access the images on the cards perfectly via SL Live. I have deleted the SL apps and reloaded twice with no improvement. I am using an Apple 2.4/5 gHz wifi network with Airport Extreme repeaters/extenders. I also tried it on my Orange Livebox dual frequency network and again I can connect to the IP address but the SL app does not find the camera. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted June 28, 2017 Share #11 Posted June 28, 2017 here is the partial exif snapshot from flickr, it still shows the f#.## Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273868-software-bugs/?do=findComment&comment=3304396'>More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 29, 2017 Share #12 Posted June 29, 2017 I would agree about the SL App. I cannot get either of my iPads, an Air 2 and a 12.9 Pro to connect with the SL App, with the App not finding the camera and just endlessly searching. It is not the network as if you set the SL to web connection, the same iPads on the same network connect to the IP address and can access the images on the cards perfectly via SL Live. I have deleted the SL apps and reloaded twice with no improvement. I am using an Apple 2.4/5 gHz wifi network with Airport Extreme repeaters/extenders. I also tried it on my Orange Livebox dual frequency network and again I can connect to the IP address but the SL app does not find the camera. Wilson Have you tried using the SL in standalone hot spot mode? On your iOS devices, have you forced all dormant apps to exit and/or reset RAM? Sometimes there will be a dozen or more apps in dormant mode, loaded but 'inactive' that are all occluding RAM and/or consuming cpu which can prevent the network from connecting cleanly. I find this happens occasionally ... I just clear them out and reset the iOS device, after which everything works properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 29, 2017 Share #13 Posted June 29, 2017 Have you tried using the SL in standalone hot spot mode? On your iOS devices, have you forced all dormant apps to exit and/or reset RAM? Sometimes there will be a dozen or more apps in dormant mode, loaded but 'inactive' that are all occluding RAM and/or consuming cpu which can prevent the network from connecting cleanly. I find this happens occasionally ... I just clear them out and reset the iOS device, after which everything works properly. Godfrey, I suspect you may be correct and some other app is getting between my iPads and the camera. I will do a clear out on one of my iPads today and try again. I did try in camera hot spot mode and that did not work either. Again my iPads found the hot spot and connected to it but the SL App could not find the camera. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 29, 2017 Share #14 Posted June 29, 2017 I have found the app that appears to cause a conflict preventing the camera from connecting to the SL App. Of all apps, it appears to be the Leica Disto area measurement and drawing app that is the conflict. Who would have credited that? It does not even use wifi but uses Blue Tooth to talk to the Disto laser measuring device. I use this device occasionally with longer lenses on my Barnack cameras and older M's, where if you have a fast long lens, the RF is marginal for accuracy at distances over about 15 metres. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 29, 2017 Share #15 Posted June 29, 2017 Wilson, Great, good to hear that! That's a good find ... The problem had to be something specific and peculiar to your use of the iDevices, it made no sense that with the same devices and os installation it would fine on some and not on others. I hope you file a bug report with Leica about that. This kind of stuff is very hard for a software developer to discover on their own. I have found the app that appears to cause a conflict preventing the camera from connecting to the SL App. Of all apps, it appears to be the Leica Disto area measurement and drawing app that is the conflict. Who would have credited that? It does not even use wifi but uses Blue Tooth to talk to the Disto laser measuring device. I use this device occasionally with longer lenses on my Barnack cameras and older M's, where if you have a fast long lens, the RF is marginal for accuracy at distances over about 15 metres. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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