New S 008

[Paul J]

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Over at David Farkas site he says the S lens line is complete.

 

This comment is interesting too.

 

Bob Hamilton December 10, 2017

I totally agree. How can any system be considered “complete” when the longest native focal length is the equivalent of 145mm in full frame terms? I wrote many times to Stephan Schulz about this issue and Leica’s failure to follow through on the lens roadmap they issued at the system’s launch all those years ago, even to the point of suggesting the compromise of a matched tele converter for the 180mm lens, and eventually received the response from him that, despite many individual requests for such a compromise, Leica had decided that there was no return on investment for them and that they would, therefore, not pursue development of a longer focal length alternative for the S system. That, to me, was the nail in the coffin and the indication that the S system was in its end of life cycle and would receive no more investment and development from Leica, the future being obviously seen by them in the SL system. As a consequence, I have sold off my S equipment, after many years of devoted Leica camera usage. Why continue to flog a dead horse?

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[Guest]

 

 

Over at David Farkas site he says the S lens line is complete.

This comment is interesting too.

Bob Hamilton December 10, 2017
I totally agree. How can any system be considered “complete” when the longest native focal length is the equivalent of 145mm in full frame terms? I wrote many times to Stephan Schulz about this issue and Leica’s failure to follow through on the lens roadmap they issued at the system’s launch all those years ago, even to the point of suggesting the compromise of a matched tele converter for the 180mm lens, and eventually received the response from him that, despite many individual requests for such a compromise, Leica had decided that there was no return on investment for them and that they would, therefore, not pursue development of a longer focal length alternative for the S system. That, to me, was the nail in the coffin and the indication that the S system was in its end of life cycle and would receive no more investment and development from Leica, the future being obviously seen by them in the SL system. As a consequence, I have sold off my S equipment, after many years of devoted Leica camera usage. Why continue to flog a dead horse?

Paul

I tend to agree that the S is dead, but if you already have it, and like it, (like I do) then we might as well keep it as its worth nothing on the second hand market..........I will keep mine and use it every now and then and probably pass it onto a family member when i get bored with it. After shooting the H6D100c I really don't see me using mine at all

 

Neil

[erlingmm]

I sometimes feel like one of the last to love and defend the S. I love the DSLR-format, the optical finder, and the optics.

 

And frankly I think some of the arguments against it are rather strange: 

 

- Is the system dead because new lenses are not coming out? Do other medium formats have longer lenses? What would they cost, and what would the weight be? How many would buy? Personally I miss a WA tilt/shift, and a 50mm pancake, otherwise the lens line-up is complete. A 2x converter might be fine, though.

 

- And, you are happy with your H6D100c? Great! It costs almost the double of an S. "After I got my Ferrari, I won't use my Mercedes much". It may be great for your use, but I carry my S is ice and snow, in deserts and cities, and it is perfect for my use.

 

​I hope we will se a 60 mpix S in 2018, hopefully with all the main design features in place, and a few new goodies. I am ready to upgrade.

Edited March 5, 2018 by erlingmm

[BernardC]

I have a hard time relating to people who claim to constantly swap (very expensive) systems based on the most tenuous premises.

Why would this person buy into the system if they wanted it for ultra-long medium format AF telephoto work? Other option were available.

 

It sounds like this person moved to a different system, and then rationalized by blaming Leica. "It's not me, it's you!"

 

In the meanwhile, my S is still every bit as good as it was when I first tried it. I did my research before purchase, so I knew what I was getting.

[Paul J]

I never went there with the S because I needed more and have that in my existing kit. But still, I look in on admiration of that lovely lens rendering.

 

Leica's pulling back on the M and is limiting my use there too so the S, still piques my interest somewhat.

 

The H6-100 maybe twice the cost of the S, but the S is more twice the cost of the X, and the X will soon be 100MP, so that price differential on the H6-100 isn't really a consideration.

 

But a 60MP S with no new lenses and no new development on the cards is a bit of a hard sell for anyone like me considering a new system when the alternatives are so compelling and going for 100MP with brand new lenses and exciting ones at that.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[erlingmm]

I never went there with the S because I needed more and have that in my existing kit. But still, I look in on admiration of that lovely lens rendering.

 

Leica's pulling back on the M and is limiting my use there too so the S, still piques my interest somewhat.

 

The H6-100 maybe twice the cost of the S, by the S is more twice the cost of the X, and the X will soon be 100MP, so chasing the H6-100.

 

But a 60MP S with no new lenses and no new development on the cards is a bit of a hard sell for anyone like me considering a new system when the alternatives are so compelling and going for 100MP with brand new lenses and exciting ones at that.

 

 

Lenses: The S has 24 (outstanding drama queen!), 30(CS), 35(CS), 45(CS), zoom (30-90), 70(CS), 100 (portrait), 120(CS, macro), 180(CS, macro option) - can you be more specific about what you think is missing in this lineup?

Edited March 5, 2018 by erlingmm

[xiaubauu2009]

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Well, the lens line up is not lacking. It's the reliability issue. Anyone who done any research looking to buy into MF will skip Leica S for sure. I have to pay the hard way literally being an early user. I guess one just got to get it out of the system....

[erlingmm]

Well, the lens line up is not lacking. It's the reliability issue. Anyone who done any research looking to buy into MF will skip Leica S for sure. I have to pay the hard way literally being an early user. I guess one just got to get it out of the system....

 

 

Reliability issue is simple: Send lenses in for AF upgrade. I did that with all of mine (6), got a very decent deal.

[xiaubauu2009]

Reliability issue is simple: Send lenses in for AF upgrade. I did that with all of mine (6), got a very decent deal.

 

 

Well, that's cause you are in wherever you are in and I am in China which is difficult as support is almost non-existent even though they have the second largest, if not largest market of Leica S. And all my problem started about 1 year before they announce the so call 'fix', and I don't see this kind high fail rate with subsequence 'fix' a good thing for Leica S system...

Edited March 5, 2018 by xiaubauu2009

[BernardC]

Lens lineups traditionally change slowly in medium format. Hasselblad's C lineup barely changed in almost 40 years, and most of those changes were related to mechanics and coatings rather than optical formulas.

 

I expect that Leica will release a 55mm (already available as a cine lens) when the Typ 008 is announced, but that's it. The only missing pieces are a fisheye (which Leica rarely offer), a longer telephoto, and a shift lens.

 

I think that Sinar will be tasked with offering full movements on the S-008 (as they have with their 30|45, based on the 007).

 

Super-telephoto doesn't benefit much from a larger sensor. The price of a hypothetical S-telephoto would surely buy you a 40/50 MP Canon/Nikon and their best ED lenses, and a sturdy tripod, and airfare to exotic locations where you can use this type of kit.

[Paul J]

Lenses: The S has 24 (outstanding drama queen!), 30 (CS), 35(CS), 45(CS), 70(CS), 100 (portrait), 120(CS, macro), 180(CS, macro option) - can you be more specific about what you think is missing in this lineup?

Well the lenses are the one thing I'm mostly interested in and they are already decent. But given you've mentioned the price difference between Hasselblad H6 and Leica S, you can't ignore the fact that Leica lenses are significantly more expensive - that contributes to total system ownership cost and value and makes the price difference less, if not the same.

 

The 30-90 has a bad reputation, that's an £8K experiment I'm not interested in but would want (I have the hasselblad 50-110 and it's stellar). Even if it the Leica was incredible, £8K is a significantly more expensive than what else is being offered.

 

A 70-150 would be good given it's niche as a portrait sort of camera too.

 

If there was a 65 or 70mm Summilux or Summicron I may just jump in anyway despite my feelings. Lets face it, that's never going to happen.

 

The medium or wide T/S?

 

No native long lens at all? All this talk of no - slow development has me really put off by the future of the system as an investment. Coupled with the service and unreliability it just all compounds. 60MP for the next 10 years? no thanks.

 

This is crowned with the fact that Fuji and Hasselblad are firing on all fours re development and the lenses that they are putting out and developing are very exciting. The X has an incoming zoom and fast 80mm f2 at least, possibly faster. The Fuji already has a stellar zoom, has an incoming 250mm with 1.4 converter to make a 350mm and they are rumoured to have a 80mm 1.4 coming this year too.

 

I understand why you might stay in the system, and I'm really not trying to insult anyone, but the newer offerings from other brands are just so much more enticing for someone who is buying into a new system and the thought of a 100MP Hasselblad X (on a Sony Sensor roadmap) with all these new lenses is just way too compelling.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[Guest]

I sometimes feel like one of the last to love and defend the S. I love the DSLR-format, the optical finder, and the optics.

 

And frankly I think some of the arguments against it are rather strange: 

 

- Is the system dead because new lenses are not coming out? Do other medium formats have longer lenses? What would they cost, and what would the weight be? How many would buy? Personally I miss a WA tilt/shift, and a 50mm pancake, otherwise the lens line-up is complete. A 2x converter might be fine, though.

 

- And, you are happy with your H6D100c? Great! It costs almost the double of an S. "After I got my Ferrari, I won't use my Mercedes much". It may be great for your use, but I carry my S is ice and snow, in deserts and cities, and it is perfect for my use.

 

​I hope we will se a 60 mpix S in 2018, hopefully with all the main design features in place, and a few new goodies. I am ready to upgrade.

My H6D100c cost $22000 brand new with 3 years warranty that is 4K more that the S007 not quite double

Neil

[Paul J]

Reliability issue is simple: Send lenses in for AF upgrade. I did that with all of mine (6), got a very decent deal.

Do you really think it's decent deal? All these constant problems with Leica should never happen in the first place - I've never had so many problems with one brand in my whole lifetime. In fact, I've hardly had any problems with other brands at all - that's heavy use of cameras, from many brands since the early 90's and I count one manufacturer defect from another brand that was resolved at no cost in 3 working days. Leica - constant issues and weeks and months to fix and always some kind of bill.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[erlingmm]

My H6D100c cost $22000 brand new with 3 years warranty that is 4K more that the S007 not quite double

Neil

 

 

Good deal, it is listed for 33k at B&H: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1244709-REG/hasselblad_h_3013742_h6d_100c_medium_format_dslr.html

[erlingmm]

Do you really think it's decent deal? All these constant problems with Leica should never happen in the first place - I've never had so many problems with one brand in my whole lifetime. In fact, I've hardly had any problems with other brands at all - that's heavy use of cameras, from many brands since the early 90's and I count one manufacturer defect from another brand that was resolved at no cost in 3 working days. Leica - constant issues and weeks and months to fix and always some kind of bill.

 

People were bashing Leica for the lens AF issue for 2 years, and rightly so, I don't want to repeat that whole discussion. I am just saying there is now a solution. Compared to the cost of the lens, I think it can be fixed for a decent price, yes.

Edited March 5, 2018 by erlingmm

[Jeff S]

My H6D100c cost $22000 brand new with 3 years warranty that is 4K more that the S007 not quite double

Neil

Not apples to apples. You got a deal, but compared that to S007 list, which one would be crazy to pay given all the similar deals out there. Double is closer to right.... list to list, or deal to deal.

 

Jeff

Edited March 5, 2018 by Jeff S

[Paul J]

Speaking of prices... A quick B+H price up shows the S is more expensive than the 100MP H.

H6-100c
35-90, 120, 100, 80, 50, 35
$65,425.00


S 007
30-90, 120, 100, 70, 45, 24
$68,220.00

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[Guest]

Reliability issue is simple: Send lenses in for AF upgrade. I did that with all of mine (6), got a very decent deal.

I'm curious to know what kind of deal you got............I sent all my 3 lenses in for AF upgrade and I got loaners and NO invoice. I was also offered a new S180mm at a great price and a guarantee that the AF would not fail  :) Not bad for someone living in Malaysia

 

Neil

[Guest]

Good deal, it is listed for 33k at B&H: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1244709-REG/hasselblad_h_3013742_h6d_100c_medium_format_dslr.html

Thank you

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest]

Not apples to apples. You got a deal, but compared that to S007 list, which one would be crazy to pay given all the similar deals out there. Double is closer to right.... list to list, or deal to deal.

 

Jeff

Ive yet to see a new S007 for 12k................but then I haven't been looking

19k compared to 33k is hardly half buddy

Neil

Edited March 5, 2018 by Guest