Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[MarkP]

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Back to the topic....personally I don't have a problem, I realise everyone here is just indulging in a little venting, and that's fine, but really isn't Leica behaving quite reputably?

Would it really be reasonable to expect the replacement offer to be open ended?  

I have been aware for years that both my M9 and MM very likely have "the problem", so this deadline has forced me to bite the bullet and finally send them away for treatment.

And (again just from a personal perspective) I wouldn't consider taking legal action over perceived wrongs regarding this business, it would be entirely too costly and life is too short.

 

I disagree with you here Dee.  

 

The 'offer' (a generous description of Leica's responsibility) should be open ended albeit for sensor corrosion only.  Leica fitted a faulty component in a very expensive camera which is described to consumers as the epitome of quality (my paraphrasing).  As John wrote there are consumer protection laws in Australia regarding such matters.

 

These cameras should provide many years of reliable service, especially for the price. Their likely use-by-date will be defined by improved technology-driven replacement rather than camera failure.  

 

However, M9 iterations were fitted with a potentially faulty major component which the company itself has recognised. This is not a matter of routine repair under normal warranty arrangements. Therefore the company should be responsible for replacement of the component, only for the recognised corrosion issue, indefinitely into the future.

 

Most M9 owners would not be on this forum. I can tell you that if I was not on this forum I'd be unaware of the sensor corrosion issue until it was too late.  I have both an M9 and Monochrom v1 registered with Leica and I have had NO communication regarding the sensor corrosion issue.  So I can't be the only M9 owner Leica has not contacted. Leica has understandably not requested a general recall to inspect all M9 sensors as their service departments would be overwhelmed (even more than they probably are now).

 

I had posted here earlier that I would have thought a reasonable an arbitrary timeframe would be 10 years either from date of production or from when the sensor had been replaced with a first generation sensor.

 

Would you be so tolerant of Leica if your M9 sensor started corroding next year and you were up for a huge repair bill? You either pay up or have an expensive paperweight on your desk.

 

Kind regards,

Mark

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[wolf430]

I sent my M9 away to Camera Clinic Melbourne on 2/6/17 and received a message that they received my camera the following day and have sent a repair number they will let me know the outcome in about a week . I noted some time ago that i had white spots on the Sensor Screen but did not consider it urgent enough to have it checked out as Leica had indicated that ANY sensors displaying this fault would be rectified free of charge to the owner as a manufacturer fault.

 

By luck I was looking at the forum this week and noticed that Leica had done an about face and now would only partly covers the repair costs on cameras brought before ..August 2012 my camera just squeezes in.Thanks to all on the forum who have made me aware but i fear that there many owners of m9s that are unaware. Best Regards Colin

Edited June 4, 2017 by wolf430

[MarkP]

Welcome to the Forum Wolf.  

You found it just in time :-)

 

Kind regards,

Mark

[rkbhcody1]

Hello Rkbh,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

It is perfectly ethical IF you explain the situation accurately & then "plug" the potential buyer into a place like this Thread in this Forum where they can get an understanding of what is involved.

 

Otherwise: No.

 

Ethical is NOT simply a First World problem.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Thank you for your response ... and also for helping me clarify ... my first world problem is having a little stress over such an expesive, yet trivial issue.  Just want to do the right thing.  Thanks for a chance to clarify.  

[rkbhcody1]

I haven't heard of any issues with the new sensor. Why don't you just get it fixed?

The lack of high ISO rating is why I would switch ... the sensor is a good reason to upgrade.  

[platypus]

I disagree with you here Dee.  

 

The 'offer' (a generous description of Leica's responsibility) should be open ended albeit for sensor corrosion only.  Leica fitted a faulty component in a very expensive camera which is described to consumers as the epitome of quality (my paraphrasing).  As John wrote there are consumer protection laws in Australia regarding such matters.

 

These cameras should provide many years of reliable service, especially for the price. Their likely use-by-date will be defined by improved technology-driven replacement rather than camera failure.  

 

However, M9 iterations were fitted with a potentially faulty major component which the company itself has recognised. This is not a matter of routine repair under normal warranty arrangements. Therefore the company should be responsible for replacement of the component, only for the recognised corrosion issue, indefinitely into the future.

 

Most M9 owners would not be on this forum. I can tell you that if I was not on this forum I'd be unaware of the sensor corrosion issue until it was too late.  I have both an M9 and Monochrom v1 registered with Leica and I have had NO communication regarding the sensor corrosion issue.  So I can't be the only M9 owner Leica has not contacted. Leica has understandably not requested a general recall to inspect all M9 sensors as their service departments would be overwhelmed (even more than they probably are now).

 

I had posted here earlier that I would have thought a reasonable an arbitrary timeframe would be 10 years either from date of production or from when the sensor had been replaced with a first generation sensor.

 

Would you be so tolerant of Leica if your M9 sensor started corroding next year and you were up for a huge repair bill? You either pay up or have an expensive paperweight on your desk.

 

Kind regards,

Mark

Hi Mark,

You are absolutely correct in your observations, and compellingly logical, which (being of artistic temperament) I never am. Also I tend to expect the worst and end up being grateful for small mercies, maybe that is form of tolerance.

 

A very long time ago I had two of the early R4 bodies, (bought new) a short way down the ownership track they both broke for no apparent reason, it seems those early R4s had a deadly design flaw.

Leica replaced them immediately with the new R4As. Since then Leica can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned, obviously irrational, but there you go. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by platypus

[MarkP]

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Also I tend to expect the worst and end up being grateful for small mercies, maybe that is form of tolerance.

 

 

 

The advantage of being a pessimist is that you're never disappointed ;-)

[IkarusJohn]

I'm an optimist, and I like to give people the opportunity to disappoint ...

 

Leica has done me no wrong, but I have been very forgiving and made a significant contribution to their bottom line - so I expect them to treat me well. However, it is important to call bad behaviour; and this is bad behaviour.

[wattsy]

You are absolutely correct in your observations, and compellingly logical, which (being of artistic temperament) I never am.

 

I don't share the idea that there is a necessary dichotomy between logic and art (some of the greatest writers and artists have also been notable scientists and vice versa) but I understand your thinking that "Leica can do no wrong" when the company stands behind its products, as with your R4 bodies. I have been critical of Leica in the past but am currently well disposed towards the company having benefited from a favour from Dr K. himself. However, I agree with John that they need to be called out on this recent development regarding sensor replacement. I tend to agree that it is not unreasonable of Leica to step back from what had become perceived as an open ended policy of free sensor replacement in perpetuity but I think the the new policy should have been announced with more than three months notice and I don't think the 5 year cut-off point is long enough. In particular, that length of time doesn't help those who have previously had a corroded sensor replaced with the old style faulty sensor. There will be many cameras originally bought between 2009-2012 that will have had a sensor replaced with the same dodgy type (I think Leica were making such replacements well into 2015) and these cameras will now fall out of the free replacement scheme despite the almost inevitability that the replacement sensor will start to corrode again. IMO a more reasonable new policy would have been something like 10 years from the original purchase date of the camera and/or something like 6 years from the date of an old-style sensor replacement.

 

 

Leica has done me no wrong, but I have been very forgiving and made a significant contribution to their bottom line - so I expect them to treat me well. However, it is important to call bad behaviour; and this is bad behaviour.

[Robert M Poole]

Just a note in case anyone else is in a similar situation, I sent my m9 to be looked at as it had a line of dead pixels, not corrosion. Leica replaced the sensor FoC with the corrosion proof one.

[platypus]

Nice Nicky at the Camera Clinic in Melbourne (Australia) phoned me this morning, they have checked my M9 and MM and, of course, both have signs of sensor corrosion.

They have quoted me four weeks turnaround time, which I would be very surprised if they can meet, we'll see.

 

Taking the opportunity I enquired about a service for both bodies, which I was quite prepared to pay for myself. Nicky said they do that as a routine service, plus checking the rangefinders, all paid for by Leica.

 

This will be the third sensor for the M9, it was sent to the Camera Clinic in (I think) late 2011, when less than a year old, it having spat oil all over it's sensor and badly needing a clean. Upon inspection Camera Clinic found that

the sensor was corroded and arranged for a free-of-charge replacement.....and voila!! here it is again with the same problem.  Way back then I had no idea what they (the Camera Clinic) were talking about, the M9 being my first digital camera....

boy oh boy have I learnt a lot since then and what fun it's been!

Edited June 6, 2017 by platypus

[wolf430]

Good news today my M9-P sent to Camera Clinic last week has been found have Sensor Corrosion and will be replaced under the current goodwill program free of charge.                                                                                                                                              

 

Thanks again guys and I would suggest that any owner who has doubts about corrosion their cameras sensor,  have it checked out ASAP by your local Leica Service Centre.

 

Best Regards Colin

[imagereflex]

I agree with platypus that Leica is likely acting reasonably. I also go on record that I will not send my two M9s for replacements simply because I don't think I will care enough when their sensors outcomes become unacceptable, should I live so long.

 

Peace

 

Hopefully you'll get lucky.  I know someone with a pair of M9 bodies, purchased around the same time, with dramatically different levels of corrosion.  One looked like it might be dust on the sensor, while the other looks like someone took a hole punch to the sensor glass.

 

The cameras still produce decent images when there is enough light.  However, while I still cherish the Leica M bodies I have used over the years (with the oldest one dating back to around 1957), I feel let down by the fact that Leica produced a defective product (the M9) and now has the nerve to say that I'll have to pay to have it corrected if the defect shows up at the end of the year. The reason I used Leica in the first place was because the equipment was reliable; Leica's change in position has me rethinking whether I should rely upon Leica products when Leica itself seems unwilling to stand behind them.

[TomB_tx]

My M9 has been fine since I bought it in 2010, but with the deadline on free sensor replacement I decided to check more carefully. Along with normal dust, I noticed 3 small spots that show in all images in the same places, spread around the frame, that look quite different than dust. Here's a 100% crop of one:

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They look the same with different lenses, and while they change with larger apertures, not in the same way that dust specs do. I suspect they are sites where porosity has allowed corrosion to start. What do you think?

On a positive note, I wrote Leica service (USA) last evening, and got a response this morning suggesting I send it in for evaluation. I am at least encouraged by their rapid response to the initial inquiry. 

[Archiver]

Nicki at Camera Clinic is awesome, really helpful and friendly. 

 

My M9 was in the second batch that came to Australia, arriving in early 2010, and it has not had a sensor replacement until now.  It didn't occur to me how bad it was because I mostly shot 50mm f2 and 35mm f1.4 wide open, but when I went back to a 21mm in mid 2016, I was horrified.  I did perform some wet cleaning over the years, and I guess that created or accelerated the corrosion. 

 

Looking forward to the return of my M9!

[erl]

Update on my M9. It was one of the first to have a new sensor, fitted by CC, when the corrosion thing struck. I have just checked it and I believe it is suffering again. Back to CC before the replacement offer times out.

 

Providing replacement sensors are readily available, I know camera Clinic are fast with the turnaround of service. Typically two weeks.

[imagereflex]

It's important to take a close look to determine if you have a camera in the early stages of corrosion.  As I mentioned, someone I know has two M9 bodies.  For one of the bodies, the only indication was what appeared at first blush to be dust on the sensor.  However, visible inspection of the sensor indicated that there was no dust in the effected area.  Upon closer inspection and testing, we discovered the tell-tale sign of corrosion:

 

 

The spot to the right with a slight halo is the kind of thing you're trying to find.

 

The other body, which had not been used for some time, had such a bad case of the corrosion that there was really no question.  The following are separate crops from one single image:

 

 

 

[IkarusJohn]

Most of the time, most people won't notice the corrosion in real life conditions - I didn't.

 

But, if you set the camera to f/16, focus at infinity and take a picture of a uniform background (I use a white wall as the sky often has clouds in it), the corrosion spots and long strands like those above are easy to see.

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[pico]

Most of the time, most people won't notice the corrosion in real life conditions - I didn't.

 

But, if you set the camera to f/16, focus at infinity and take a picture of a uniform background (I use a white wall as the sky often has clouds in it), the corrosion spots and long strands like those above are easy to see.

 

I wonder if some of those who complain that corrosion is ruining their photos have ever had a print criticized because of the 'defect'. I'm leaving my two M9 cameras as-is rather than sending them away to some kind indeterminable Leica limbo.

.

[platypus]

Update on my M9. It was one of the first to have a new sensor, fitted by CC, when the corrosion thing struck. I have just checked it and I believe it is suffering again. Back to CC before the replacement offer times out.

 

Providing replacement sensors are readily available, I know camera Clinic are fast with the turnaround of service. Typically two weeks.

 

 

Firstly I'd like to apologise to to Nicki at the Camera Clinic for having spelt her name incorrectly in my previous post, sorry! I'm not usually so slack.

 

Secondly regarding the turnaround time of four weeks that Nicki quoted me, and that was a week ago, it can only have gotten worse since then.......

I know CC are usually phenomenally quick and efficient, however Nicki did specifically say that, even though they were currently quoting four weeks,

it could well turn out to be longer as they are experiencing such a flood of orders for sensor replacements, so the situation is anything but typical.

 

Patience is a virtue folks.