LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #21 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's like the question "why does the water in a kettle boil". Some will say it's because the electricity going through the resistant wire in the heating element produces heat. Some will say it's because I want a cup of tea. What causes a change in perspective? A change in position. What causes a change in position? A change of focal length. What causes a change in perspective? A change of focal length. And then there is more than one meaning of the word "perspective". I agree with all of this. But strictly, optically, geometrically, it is the change in position that changes perspective, not focal length. Whether this is important for how you take photos is, of course, up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Do you conform or mix it up? I need some inspiration. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #22  Posted April 7, 2017 Two photos taken of my wife, with an expression suitable to the occasion, taken with a 75 and 21 from the same spot. The 21 has been cropped to roughly match. I hope you can see that they are, to all intents and purposes, identical. The first one: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271123-do-you-conform-or-mix-it-up-i-need-some-inspiration/?do=findComment&comment=3249915'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #23  Posted April 7, 2017 And the second: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271123-do-you-conform-or-mix-it-up-i-need-some-inspiration/?do=findComment&comment=3249916'>More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 7, 2017 Share #24 Â Posted April 7, 2017 This has little to do with the original question, since it overlooks most of the reasons why people like to have lenses of more than one focal length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #25 Â Posted April 7, 2017 This is an independent phenomenon. It's also why 75/90 historically has been considered the best focal length for portraits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #26 Â Posted April 7, 2017 This is an independent phenomenon. It's also why 75/90 historically has been considered the best focal length for portraits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #27 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) This has little to do with the original question, since it overlooks most of the reasons why people like to have lenses of more than one focal length. Yes, but, as with most things on this forum, you can see how it happened! Â I do think it important for photographers to understand what effect choices have on the image (focal length, shooting position in this case). The OP mentioned two "rules": wide angle for landscape, telephoto for portrait), which I think can hold a photographer back from developing their own personal style based on understanding, not rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 7, 2017 Share #28 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Yes, but, as with most things on this forum, you can see how it happened! Â I do think it important for photographers to understand what effect choices have on the image (focal length, shooting position in this case). The OP mentioned two "rules": wide angle for landscape, telephoto for portrait), which I think can hold a photographer back from developing their own personal style based on understanding, not rules. Â Â Totally agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #29 Â Posted April 7, 2017 This is an independent phenomenon. It's also why 75/90 historically has been considered the best focal length for portraits. I don't know what you mean by this. I have shown practically that perspective is not affected by focal length. Is it possible we are arguing about two different meanings of "perspective" or "relationship of foreground to background"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #30 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Two photos taken of my wife, with an expression suitable to the occasion, taken with a 75 and 21 from the same spot. The 21 has been cropped to roughly match. I hope you can see that they are, to all intents and purposes, identical. The first one: P1050876.jpg I see what your saying, too bad you stripped off the exif information... these two are almost identical... try not cropping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #31 Â Posted April 7, 2017 This is an independent phenomenon. It's also why 75/90 historically has been considered the best focal length for portraits. Short telephoto lenses allow you to get a headshot from a shooting position that is far enough away that distortion of features is minimised (the nearer shoulder is not too large, for example). You could get a shot that looked exactly the same from that same (distant) position using a wide angle, but you would have to crop much of it away to get the same simple headshot. Â If you take a headshot with a wide angle from a distance close enough to fill the frame, the face will be distorted. But it would be distorted to the same extent (those bits you could see) if you used a 90mm from the same position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #32 Â Posted April 7, 2017 I don't know what you mean by this. I have shown practically that perspective is not affected by focal length. Is it possible we are arguing about two different meanings of "perspective" or "relationship of foreground to background"? We may be. Photographic terms, by their nature are ambiguous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted April 7, 2017 Share #33 Â Posted April 7, 2017 ...What causes a change in position? A change of focal length. ... Aha! Finally someone explains why after changing my lens I suddenly stood at another spot in the landscape. Once, i suddenly stood in the middle of a river after changing from a 21mm to a 135mm lens. However, this seems to be a much cheaper way to travel. Â And the second: P1050878.jpg Thanks for actually doing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #34  Posted April 7, 2017 I see what your saying, too bad you stripped off the exif information... these two are almost identical... try not cropping. EXIF was stripped by my Lightroom export preset. Both were taken at f/3.4, 1/100 and 1/125, ISO 100. I deliberately avoided labelling them with focal length! Here is the uncropped version with the 21. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271123-do-you-conform-or-mix-it-up-i-need-some-inspiration/?do=findComment&comment=3249960'>More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #35  Posted April 7, 2017 EXIF was stripped by my Lightroom export preset. Both were taken at f/3.4, 1/100 and 1/125, ISO 100. I deliberately avoided labelling them with focal length! Here is the uncropped version with the 21. P1050878-2.jpg Ah, I see. I reviewed my images and references. I see my oops. The subject must be the same size relative to the frame in each photo. The way you took the photo, the subject is smaller in the 21mm. So yes you must move. Then compression is evident. Thanks for your efforts, and the reminder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 7, 2017 Share #36 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Lenses can't change the spatial relationship between real objects. Â But we all know that if you put your hand in front of your eye (or even just an eyelid) Â it can obscure your view of the entire otherwise-visible universe. These relationships are part of our normal understanding of what vision tells us about external "reality", and we should apply that to photography, although often it's too instinctive to generate much thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted April 7, 2017 Share #37 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Lenses can't change the spatial relationship between real They do, I'm real, my subject is real. Lenses do change the relationship between us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted April 7, 2017 Share #38 Â Posted April 7, 2017 They do, I'm real, my subject is real. Lenses do change the relationship between us. Yes, but only when they're really expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #39  Posted April 7, 2017 They do, I'm real, my subject is real. Lenses do change the relationship between us. You omitted the key word in Peter's post: "spatial". The lens you use has no effect on the spatial relationship between you and your subject. There are lots of other sorts of relationship, which I suspect you are referring to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w44neg Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share #40 Â Posted April 7, 2017 Wow this one escalated quickly. The whole point of the thread was do you conform to these supposed rules or not? It's a simple question and was just a bit of fun; it didn't need to get serious :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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