Looking at a wide angle... Carl Zeiss 18mm Distagon f4?

[w44neg]

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I've been on the look-out for a wide angle lens which I'll use for landscapes but also to create distorted effects in certain circumstances.

 

I've come across the Distagon during my search but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info around. Cheaper options would be from Voigtlander such as the 10/12/15mm models but I think the 10 and 12mm could actually be too wide. Leica's options seem to mostly be 21mm which isn't wide enough, and they're much more expensive.

 

Any thoughts from anyone regarding this? I'm struggling to make a decision :-s

[jrp]

Leica has an 18mm, which is pretty good.  I don't know how is compares to the Zeiss.  The 15mm Voiglander is also pretty good, but once you are down to 15mm, you may as well go to 12mm or 10mm (even though they perform less well at the corners) cos when you really need to get it all in, you can never have to much coverage

[Ronazle]

The 18mm Distagon is one of the Zeiss lenses that more than one person has identified as every bit as good as the Leica counterpart. In a side by side performance comparison "derleicaman" considers the Distagon virtually identical to the Elmar. His comment is in the thread about the Zeiss 21mm and 18mm being discontinued. I consider my Distagon to be absolutely wonderful; it is my extreme WA of choice. Regards, Ron

[Gregm61]

 Leica's options seem to mostly be 21mm which isn't wide enough, and they're much more expensive.

 

 

 

Options wider than 21mm definitely are more expensive than the Zeiss (Leica vs. Cosina-made Zeiss, what else would you expect?), but they do exist. The 18mm f3.8 Super Elmar is excellent.

 

This review refers to them both..

 

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2463383,00.asp

 

I picked the 18 Super Elmar and couldn't be happier with it. Maybe at some point, some day I'll be able to afford the 16-18-21 WATE. Until then, I'll struggle by with the Elmar, LOL.

 

 

[w44neg]

Great replies and those photos show great sharpness. The issue with them being so close in performance is the Leica is twice the price, and for the extra, I could also buy the 50mm option I'm weighing up (Summicron V4, Zeiss f1.5 or Zeiss f2) so I think that's swaying me in the direction of the Zeiss; especially after purchasing a 35 FLE today!!

[ldhrads]

I bought the Zeiss 18/4 as a less expensive alternative to the Super Elmar since I didn't think I would use it nearly as much as my other lenses.  I also have the Zeiss 25 and 28 (strange story how I got both).

I really enjoy the Zeiss 18/4 when I shoot with it which isn't often, but it's a good lens and really shoots nicely.  Definitely look for the accessory finder from Zeiss, it's really bright and helpful with this lens, in fact you'll absolutely need it for framing.

Most everything else I own is Leica glass, but I couldn't pull the trigger on the SEM

[w44neg]

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I think framing should be easy as I can use live view or the angled finder. I definitely think I'm swaying towards the Zeiss though.

[jmahto]

Leica has an 18mm, which is pretty good.  I don't know how is compares to the Zeiss.  The 15mm Voiglander is also pretty good, but once you are down to 15mm, you may as well go to 12mm or 10mm (even though they perform less well at the corners) cos when you really need to get it all in, you can never have to much coverage

I use wide angle only occasionally but whenever I do, I like 15mm Voigtlander (I have ver II). After removing color cast in LR it is perfectly useable.

 

I like the outcome. Light and cheap is a bonus.

 

The following two pics show the versatility of this lens.

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[iwc852]

... the Distagon 18mm ist an excellent lense: sharp, crisp, very little distortion and no problems with flare. No gap of any sort compared to the Leica equivalent.

 

When considering the 50: rather go with the Planar 50, maybe the Summicron IV (some focus shift but not a lot), but be careful with the Sonnar-C 50; this lens has an amount of focus shift that is not easy to deal with. Consider the Elmar 50 (new version): excellent performance, very small and affordable...

[uhoh7]

... the Distagon 18mm ist an excellent lense: sharp, crisp, very little distortion and no problems with flare. No gap of any sort compared to the Leica equivalent.

All you need to do is compare charts from ZM18 and SEM18. The Leica is in another league, at all apertures. A close look at images bears this out.

 

I use the ZM 18/4 alot. But I will upgrade to SEM18 someday, which is quite a bit stronger, and smaller/lighter.

 

Close Sentiment by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Long ways down by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Whitebark over Bigwood by unoh7, on Flickr

 

High Walk by unoh7, on Flickr

 

These all on M9, most with 21 Elmarit profile. The ZM18 is a very good UWA, and has a special character. You see them now sometimes for 650USD, which is a very good deal. SEM 18 more like 1800. But that lens is maybe the best 18mm in the world.

 

Now, the ZI18 truly is the best 18mm OVF in the world

 

at 50, the v4 cron is strongest of those you mention, except planar is better with flare. On secret about the v4 cron. Close up only the APO beats it. At f/2 1m it beats the 50 lux APSH according to Puts. But not at infinity:

 

Lensrentals Optical Bench

 

Note the Planar and Sonnar are in there too.

 

Point it out! by unoh7, v4 Cron 50/2 WO

 

And it is such a tiny lens

People wax about the f/1 and 75 Lux. To me, the cron v4 is Mandler's greatest achievement.

[w44neg]

... the Distagon 18mm ist an excellent lense: sharp, crisp, very little distortion and no problems with flare. No gap of any sort compared to the Leica equivalent.

 

When considering the 50: rather go with the Planar 50, maybe the Summicron IV (some focus shift but not a lot), but be careful with the Sonnar-C 50; this lens has an amount of focus shift that is not easy to deal with. Consider the Elmar 50 (new version): excellent performance, very small and affordable...

 

 

All you need to do is compare charts from ZM18 and SEM18. The Leica is in another league, at all apertures. A close look at images bears this out.

 

I use the ZM 18/4 alot. But I will upgrade to SEM18 someday, which is quite a bit stronger, and smaller/lighter.

 

 

Close Sentiment by unoh7, on Flickr

 

 

Long ways down by unoh7, on Flickr

 

 

Whitebark over Bigwood by unoh7, on Flickr

 

 

High Walk by unoh7, on Flickr

 

These all on M9, most with 21 Elmarit profile. The ZM18 is a very good UWA, and has a special character. You see them now sometimes for 650USD, which is a very good deal. SEM 18 more like 1800. But that lens is maybe the best 18mm in the world.

 

Now, the ZI18 truly is the best 18mm OVF in the world

 

at 50, the v4 cron is strongest of those you mention, except planar is better with flare. On secret about the v4 cron. Close up only the APO beats it. At f/2 1m it beats the 50 lux APSH according to Puts. But not at infinity:

 

Lensrentals Optical Bench

 

Note the Planar and Sonnar are in there too.

 

 

Point it out! by unoh7, v4 Cron 50/2 WO

 

And it is such a tiny lens

People wax about the f/1 and 75 Lux. To me, the cron v4 is Mandler's greatest achievement.

 

Thanks, would a current 50mm Summilux be a much better overall option? I like sharp with character, focus tabs and 6 bit coding is a major bonus.

 

I have found a major reason for the Zeiss 18mm just now... 50cm closest focus compared to 70cm of the Leica. This will work with my band photography.

 

This isn't a great example but...

 

[AceVentura1986]

I have the Voigtlander 15mm. Excellent, even in the corners.

[derleicaman]

I shot the ZM 18 and 18 SEM side by side for a week for an article I was doing for the LHSA Viewfinder on the 18 SEM. I saw no real difference between the images from the two lenses. Certainly not enough to justify the price difference. I was shooting in the real world and not in a lab situation. I still have the ZM 18.

 

If you wish to use filters, this is much easier to do on the ZM. The Leica lens requires an adapter ring to use filters. 

[uhoh7]

I shot the ZM 18 and 18 SEM side by side for a week for an article I was doing for the LHSA Viewfinder on the 18 SEM. I saw no real difference between the images from the two lenses. Certainly not enough to justify the price difference. I was shooting in the real world and not in a lab situation.

Can you post landscape examples which support this?

 

I can tell you the SEM 21 is stronger than the ZM 18 on the edges and corners, as the charts show, in the real world, at every aperture on M9. I shoot both all the time. SEM 18 is next lens I will buy just for this reason, but certainly the ZM 18 is very good. It is overly big and heavy, though.

 

I originally was of the same opinion as you, but some close examination of SEM 18 and my own ZM18 images have changed my mind. My own samples above can be seen full size.

 

Here is the SEM 21 on M9:

East Fork Salmon River by unoh7

 

Such clarity in the deep corner at that range I don't find in ZM18. In fact the whole edge lacks SEM clarity, as the zeiss chart says it should:

ZM 18/4 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Below the SEM 18, which is actually a smidge better than SEM 21 by the numbers, though their curves are similar.

SEM18 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Any landscape like the one above should show this difference quite obviously on M9, 240, or M10. WO it's huge, and falloff at the edge is seen even at F/8. Yes, you have to look, and for many the Zeiss is good enough. The same? I don't believe it, but I could save alot of money if somebody can prove it

 

Thanks, would a current 50mm Summilux be a much better overall option? I like sharp with character, focus tabs and 6 bit coding is a major bonus.

50 Lux APSH is incredible lens. The prices have come down alot, but still over 2k USD. The v4 cron can be found with focus tab, and it does not need any profile on a digital M. It's only real advantage over the 50 Lux APSH is size and weight, and of course the price. Otherwise, yes the LUX is superior.