charlesphoto99 Posted June 19, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Apropos to my thread about the recent essay I shot I've been pleasantly surprised by the range of the M8 files, particularly in regards to shadow recovery. I think this is the example I will send to people when they want to see what the M8 is capable of. I have a future client, German at that, who is insisting the job be shot with the MkII because of its 16mp. I think the Leica is much nicer and really don't think the 6mp makes much difference for upsizing as long as the right software is used. Oh, and this was shot at 320 with a 24mm and adjusted in Lightroom. First pic (dark) is straight out of camera as shot. Personally I would adjust somewhere more between the two but for this I wanted to show the range possible. Now, if only the repair service.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=285399'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Hi charlesphoto99, Take a look here M8 and shadow recovery. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
echorec Posted June 19, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 19, 2007 Impressing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 20, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 20, 2007 Charles, Would you very kindly describe your workflow for recovering shadow detail please? ie shadow adjustment in ACR, shadows and highlights in PSCS2 etc? Many thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted June 20, 2007 Charles, Would you very kindly describe your workflow for recovering shadow detail please? ie shadow adjustment in ACR, shadows and highlights in PSCS2 etc? Many thanks, Pete. I used Lightroom for this. I generally start from the top down: white balance picker, some fill light (+60) and then highlight recovery (+100), and then a boost of blacks (+6) and some vibrance (+66) and maybe a bit of curve adjustment if needed (not in this case). And oh, a nudge (+.34) of exposure in the end. I think Lightroom is a great program - I highly suggest the Martin Evening book to figure your way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted June 20, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2007 Charles - If you could show us the histogram for the first shot it would help people to evaluate your examples. ............Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted June 20, 2007 Hi Chris, no idea how to do that, but needless to say in LR it is all bunched up to the left in the original, and then more nicely spread out in the adjusted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 20, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, Charles. Been thinking about entering the world of Lightroom but CS2 has served me well so far. Hmm ... Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 20, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 20, 2007 "If you could show us the histogram" - "no idea how to do that" Take a screen shot when the histogram is visible on your screen. On a Mac, it's Apple-shift-3, which creates a .png on your desktop that can be opened with Photoshop or other compatable graphics program; On Windows hit the "print Screen" button and then "paste" into a new Photoshop or other graphics program document. At that point just crop for the histogram part of the image and save the results as a jpeg as you would any other picture for web posting. Sample (screen shot from Adobe ACR window on a Mac) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=286146'>More sharing options...
adan Posted June 20, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 20, 2007 Here are the histograms for Charles' two shots above, as opened from his jpegs in Photoshop (if that helps anyone - likely they're a bit distorted from the original Lightroom ones since the images have passed through the web and through various colorspaces before I sampled them) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=286154'>More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted June 20, 2007 Thanks for that Andy. Here's the info on LR first for unadjusted then for adjusted. Pete: it's really the same engine as CS2, just a better interface. Kind of like having Bridge and ACR all in one (with a bit of iView thrown in as well.) I've recently upgraded to CS3 which has some added features to the ACR - waiting to see what the first LR update will bring. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=286156'>More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted June 20, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 20, 2007 This has been very similar to my workflow with the M8 in lightroom. I just recently discovered the power of the fill light, and recovery sliders. It's damn amazing. The only major problem is if you use both the mattes that lightroom uses to select the ranges can create lines around objects of high contrast. look at the horizon in this shot that had a heavy amount of both sliders used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted June 20, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 20, 2007 Yeah in cases like that, Mike, I find that backing off the recovery eliminates the lines and still gives a good result. Generally, I notice that too much recovery can really flatten an image. No question that it's a powerful tool. Between the two, you can turn a horrible histogram into one that's almost optimal. Recovery is just amazing in some settings. I've watched in utter disbelief as it turns a blown-out window in the distance into tiny little pastel tableau with incredible details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 20, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 20, 2007 I liked "fill light" when I used it in Raw Shooter. Glad to see that it has made it into LR. But here is another example of deep shadow recovery, using C1. Exposure was fooled by bright background, so i show exposure pushed 2.5 stops, 1.5 stops, 0 stops and the best compromise, which seemed to be +1 stop with mid levels shifted down to 1.26: scott Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=286210'>More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted June 21, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2007 If it is a truism that 'we cannot know something by an instrument that is wrong', why do we accept a camera histogram that shows us shadow information hitting the wall [and therefore with reasonable expectations of substantial clipping], whilst in fact the 'wall' values can still have substantial detail? The case that has been presented is that the M8 gives us so much more in the shadows than we at first presume, but I think that the histogram is not giving us the true information we need to properly evaluate the integrity of our files. I want that information shown in a full screen histogram which is easily viewed. The point and shoot, and transparency film traditions have strongly influenced how digital cameras present their recorded information, inasmuch that the camera screen image approximates to how the 'processed' image will look. Those of us who come from a principally film negative tradition [particularly colour] know from experience that the recorded information can look radically unlike the 'processed' information. Digital image processing is, for me, a lot closer to 'negative' printmaking than it is to transparency photography. So why not show us the information that the sensor has recorded, even if that means the on camera screen image is as flat as a pancake? What I would like from auto exposure metering, would be to set my brightest white [for me that is around 245+], let the histogram show all the capture before clipping, and accept that the image on the camera screen bears no relationship to how a mastered file will look. I know that specular highlights can be little devils, but what is wrong with using technique to adjust exposure to allow specular highlights to hit the highlight wall. Just a thought, and as I am no whizz, please do not remind me of my ignorance if you reply. .............Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted June 21, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 21, 2007 Anybody here uses the SHO plugin ? Kodak's Austin Development Center - Photoshop Plugins & More! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted June 21, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 21, 2007 Chris, It's an interesting point. Presumably, the histogram represents the image's current state (i.e., the develop settings at their then-current parameters). I suppose it would be possible to represent a histogram of the full potential of the image (i.e., the maximum DR at each end) instead, which is I think where you are going.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 21, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 21, 2007 One reason, not a completely satisfying one, is that a histogram with 256 vertical bars can be computed in 1/64th of the time that it takes to determine and plot all 14 bits (1 to 16,000) of valid data. And a second reason is that if you show the full histogram of the underlying data while displaying a thumbnail which is a small conventionally computed JPEG, most people will be rather confused. How about a different solution -- an in camera review mode in which you can push the exposure up and down, seeing the 8bit histogram of the result at each point.? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdos2 Posted June 21, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 21, 2007 Aperture has a slider for "shadow recovery" which I discovered about a week ago. I had taken a shot of a house into the sun, and expecting a hellishly high contrast picture. Playing with it in Aperture, I found the "Shadow" slider, and moving it to the right... I swore I had a HDR picture on my hands. Amazing. The control is under "Highlights & Shadows" on the adjustments window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
holgerf Posted June 21, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 21, 2007 Aperture has a slider for "shadow recovery" which I discovered about a week ago. I had taken a shot of a house into the sun, and expecting a hellishly high contrast picture. Playing with it in Aperture, I found the "Shadow" slider, and moving it to the right... I swore I had a HDR picture on my hands. Amazing. The control is under "Highlights & Shadows" on the adjustments window. Amazing is the right wording. And don’t forget the slider HIGHLIGHTS. In the sample bolow you find an image with a contrast not to handle in the untouched version. Just look what "Highlicghts & Shadows" sliders of APERTURE can do The untouched version: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And here the modified version: Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And here the modified version: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27045-m8-and-shadow-recovery/?do=findComment&comment=287257'>More sharing options...
carstenw Posted June 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 21, 2007 Now show the Shadow slider on that picture, please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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