Does OIS degrade a bit IG?

[leica1215]

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I have too little knowledge about OIS on SL, can someone enlighten this ?

 

Is the OIS on the lens or on SL body?

 

By turn on the OIS does it effect IQ?

 

What exactly can OIS improve?

 

Thanks

 

 

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[scott kirkpatrick]

OIS is entirely in the lens.  The SL's sensor is fixed in place.  Since OIS helps YOU hold the image steady, it should improve image quality if that is a problem.  Of course, it doesn't stop a moving subject from moving.  You might be asking if leaving OIS enabled when the camera is held rock-steady on a tripod allows some small jitter to degrade the image.  That's an interesting experiment, but I have not tried it.

 

scott

[earleygallery]

You shouldn't have OIS on if the camera is on a tripod.

 

OIS allows you to hand-hold your camera at slower shutter speeds that you normally could. You shouldn't need it in good lighting conditions and as said it doesn't help if the subject itself is moving!

[leica1215]

So, just like Scott mentioned maybe some small jitters can effect IQ?

 

 

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[earleygallery]

So, just like Scott mentioned maybe some small jitters can effect IQ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If you don't turn the OIS off when the camera is on a tripod you might end up with unsharp images due to the electronics trying to detect movement - with OIS off the lens elements are locked, if OIS is on the elements can move, which is a problem if the camera itself isn't moving.

[ramarren]

The image stabilization system is in-lens, as stated previously by others. 

 

The reason why image stabilization should be disabled when working with a tripod is that the IS system in most cameras is tuned to respond to movements in the frequency and spatial displacements of human musculature. When you fit the camera to a tripod or other rigid support, the nature of any vibrations being sent to the camera body is much higher frequency and much smaller displacement than human musculature, which is out of range of the IS gimbal system to compensate for properly. The result is that, in some situations, the stabilization system itself actually adds to the existing motion it is attempting to compensate for.

 

Unlike with the IS system implementations in some other brands, the Leica SL body has an exceptionally well-damped, low vibration shutter that does not 'fool' the IS system into attempting to over-compensate when hand-held. There's little to no pre-exposure shutter shock, no delays required to allow it to subside, et cetera. So basically, with a dedicated SL lens that supports stabilization, for hand held work there is no benefit to turning it off to stay out of some 'high vibration period' of the camera body. Basic rule in use is: "Turn on IS when the camera and lens are being hand held; turn off IS when the camera and lens are being mounted on a tripod." 

[helged]

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Basic rule in use is: "Turn on IS when the camera and lens are being hand held; turn off IS when the camera and lens are being mounted on a tripod." 

 

True - but with the addendum that for erratic subjects, like (smaller) birds in flight, the IS may work against you.

[ramarren]

True - but with the addendum that for erratic subjects, like (smaller) birds in flight, the IS may work against you.

That is a very specific edge case use and definitely something to be aware of.

 

I recall that Olympus IBIS has a mode specifically intended to manage the case where rapidly moving subject targeting has to be dealt with: you can set it to delay IS operation until the moment of exposure (well, a couple of milliseconds before) to handle such jerky, small motion retargeting without lag at the expense of stabilizing the view during framing somewhat. It's a trade off.

 

"Technology and features only help when they can help."

[jrp]

I have a hazy recollection from when the zooms where originally introduced of the Leica people on a video explaining that OIS degraded image quality slightly.  I have never tested or checked the proposition.

[LD_50]

I would recommend that instead of asking everyone's opinions you simply test with OIS on and off. Also, all the specifications for the lenses and camera body are available on Leica's site, as well as many other sites. The stabilization method is well documented.

 

Even if there is a slight difference in quality (at high enough shutter speeds to negate the need for OIS) it may not be enough to matter to you. You could also simply turn it off when shooting at high shutter speeds where you deem it unnecessary.

 

Furthermore I have read countless times the conjecture that in lens stabilization systems reduce the potential IQ of a lens when compared to a non-stabilized design. If this were the case you'd never know as there are not duplicate versions available with and without stabilization. The way to determine if this is a problem is to simply go shoot the lens and if the IQ does not meet your standards the technical reason is irrelevant (since you cannot redesign the lens) and you choose another lens.

 

I've noticed few IQ problems with any lens based IS systems I've owned when handholding. The only example I recall was with a Nikkor 70-200 (forget which version) when the camera was held in the vertical (portrait) orientation. It seemed the IS was more effective in the normal horizontal orientation. It would occasionally give strange results and this was my best guess as to why.

[ramarren]

I agree, LD_50. It seems many people seem to forget these days that if they have the equipment in hand, it's not so difficult to do a simple test and ascertain first hand how it behaves ... and there's no cost to it anymore given digital capture.

[Jared]

I have checked to see whether OIS on the SL (using the 24-90 since I don't own the 90-280) ever degrades image quality.  The short answer is, "Probably Not."  As has been pointed out, it's easy enough to check for yourself.

 

In theory, OIS can degrade an otherwise sharp image by introducing adjustments that were not matched to the frequency and translation of a shutter firing on a tripod mounted camera.  One other way OIS can degrade an image is by directly introducing aberrations. OIS on a system like the SL works through a lightweight lens element that is translated up/down and left/right by electromagnets.  While the translation is small, it still technically represents a lens element being de-centered.  OIS lenses are designed from the ground up to minimize aberrations created by this process, but technically it degrades image quality any time the lens element is not perfectly centered.  You will sometimes see people pointing out this issue as well.  

 

Now for the slightly longer answer... Based on my testing, the blur introduced by OIS on a tripod mounted image using the 24-90 set to a focal distance of roughly one meter and a focal length of 35mm is essentially non-existent.  Even when using a shutter speed equal to 1 / (2x focal ratio) there is a small benefit to OIS, and I could not detect a consistent down side at any shutter speed or when putting the camera on a tripod.  In these situations it didn't help anything, but it didn't hurt anything either.

 

Here are some 100% crops for you taken with a range of scenarios... Tripod mounted OIS On, Tripod mounted OIS off, Handheld OIS on, Handheld OIS off, Summilux-M 35mm FLE Tripod Mounted.  See if you can guess which was which.  Shutter speed in all cases was 1/60s, so pretty aggressive for handholding if you are trying for absolute resolution.

 

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[Jared]

Just realized the description of the crops is not quite clear... One image was take with the Summilux-M FLE. The others were with the 24-90 @ 35mm. For the zoom, it's a mix of handheld and tripod mounted, OIS on and OIS off. The image with the M lens was tripod mounted. Not saying which is which yet. F/4 in all cases.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The reasons I didn't give any prescription for OIS on a tripod are that (1) I've read lots of posts in which people say it seems to make no difference, and (2), some tripods have a panning head so that you can follow that BIF (bird in flight) without so much muscle strain, or even (perish the thought) shoot video.  Managing the lens slew as you track a moving subject is an art in itself.  Done properly, you and the lens together are much smoother, but if not, this can introduce delays.  Leica says that its OIS algorithms are designed to recognize horizontal slew so that only vertical motion is cancelled out.  Olympus and Fuji offer specific settings to control this.

 

scott

 

PS In Jared's examples. I would bet that the two center ones are handheld.  I'd expect any blurring to be the result of depth of focus issues, from keeping the distance constant while hand holding.

[Jared]

The only reason I asked people to guess is that there is not all that much difference. The first image is tripod mounted with the 35mm Summilux-M FLE mounted on a tripod. The second in the top row is the 24-90 on a tripod with OIS off. The third is the 24-90 on a tripod with OIS turned on. The first image in the second row is with the 24-90 handheld and OIS on. The lastbimage isnhandheld with OIS turned off. In all cases the exposure was at f/, 1/60s. There were passing clouds so you may see slight variation in lighting.

 

To my eye, the first four images are all very similar. If you look at the full image, you will definitely see a difference in how the Summilux renders the scene in terms of color and contrast, but the first four images are very nearly all equivalent in "sharpness". By the way, all images are with sharpening turned off. He very last image is significantly less sharp than the other 4. Even at 1/60s, there is some motion blur when hand holding at 35mm. It's not enough to show on a 5 x 7 print or perhaps even on an 8x10, but you would see it on a larger print or perhaps even on a 5K display. Aside from that? I don't see a downside to OIS. I'd probably turn it off when using a tripod if I remembered, just to make sure there wasn't a problem, but it's obviously not a huge deal either way.

 

- Jared

[Tailwagger]

I suspect OIS on a tripod depends on the specific implementation and/or sensor resolution. I haven't noticed a problem with the Fuji. One thing I didn't see mentioned is that should be added to the general rule of thumb is that OIS should be turned off at higher shutter speeds. I treat OIS similar to ISO. I shoot at base ISO until I need to move off it. Similarly, I leave OIS off until conditions warrant it should be turned on.

[Stonewall Brigade]

I have too little knowledge about OIS on SL, can someone enlighten this ?

 

Is the OIS on the lens or on SL body?

 

By turn on the OIS does it effect IQ?

 

What exactly can OIS improve?

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What you asked is the general question among Leica Q owners, and, from a report I personally received via e-mail from Leica USA's tech support. I was previously a long-term Olympus and Fuji X owner, where those camera gear owners ALWAYS use the image stabilization that comes on the camera lens or body.  Only turned it off when shooting with a tripod.  But the Leica Q may have OIS, but the majority of owners 9and the Leica USA tech guy I asked) all say the Q's lens is optimized for maximum sharpness when OIS is turned off, and the image may be degraded slightly when OIS is turned on.  It is not logical to me, from an Olympus micro 4/3 shooter, but that's what is said about the Q. Perhaps the SL is the same as the Q in this regard? On the SL I think OIS is built into the lens, not the body.

[Jared]

What you asked is the general question among Leica Q owners, and, from a report I personally received via e-mail from Leica USA's tech support. I was previously a long-term Olympus and Fuji X owner, where those camera gear owners ALWAYS use the image stabilization that comes on the camera lens or body.  Only turned it off when shooting with a tripod.  But the Leica Q may have OIS, but the majority of owners 9and the Leica USA tech guy I asked) all say the Q's lens is optimized for maximum sharpness when OIS is turned off, and the image may be degraded slightly when OIS is turned on.  It is not logical to me, from an Olympus micro 4/3 shooter, but that's what is said about the Q. Perhaps the SL is the same as the Q in this regard? On the SL I think OIS is built into the lens, not the body.

 

 

While I expect that is true technically, based on my tests with both the 'Q' and the SL I literally can not tell the difference between high shutter speed shots with OIS enabled and with OIS turned off.  There is more sample variation from shot to shot than there is difference between on and off.  While it's technically true, since OIS requires a non-zero power optical element be translated and therefore decentered, the difference is so slight as to be irrelevant.  Rather than trusting the advice of a tech rep, this is a situation where it is easy enough to test for oneself, and I think that's more relevant since the each photographer is a little different, and what difference is considered "small" vs. "undetectable" will vary from one photographer to another.  Literally, I believe the largest difference when hand holding at a high shutter speed comes from the body swaying slightly forwards or backwards thus changing subject distance between when the image is focused and when the exposure is taken.  That had a larger affect than OIS on/off.  Try it yourself then decide.  If you are seeing differences, by all means adjust the OIS setting based on your shutter speeds.  If you aren't, then just leave it turned on.  This would apply equally to the 'Q' and the SL.

 

- Jared

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[thighslapper]

My default setting with the SL is 'OIS on'. I hardly ever turn it off except when it 'wanders' when trying to compose when using a tripod. I often take shots of church/palace ceilings with the camera on the floor and timed release. I cannot say I have noticed the slightest image degradation from leaving it on.

 

I would rather suffer the very occasional imperceptible image degradation by accidentally leaving it on, than lose good images by forgetting to turn it on. 

[LEGEND]

How much power OIS in 24-90 use when is on? I have huge tremor in my hands and if I shoot under 1/250sec. you can notice it in the photos. I try to have OIS on as much as I can but I am afraid that it will drain the batt. About possible image degradation I don't worry.   

Nikola