M10 flash issue

[cprotz]

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb rramesh:

Can you mount the EVF on top of a Phottix Strato flash trigger? It has a hotshoe duplicator on top of the trigger. The flash could be mounted on an extension bracket with the receiver.

Yes and no. What you donˆt see in the picture is that the EVF itself has 16 or so Pins which the usual adapters wonˆt replicate. So you might me able to replicate the flash trigger signal but wouldnot be able to use the EVF. If I knew that the signal question I ask above is "safe" I would try it out...

[rramesh]

6 hours ago, cprotz said:

Yes and no. What you donˆt see in the picture is that the EVF itself has 16 or so Pins which the usual adapters wonˆt replicate. So you might me able to replicate the flash trigger signal but wouldnot be able to use the EVF. If I knew that the signal question I ask above is "safe" I would try it out...

Ah! Thanks.

[mmx_2]

Is TTL a must?

I took my Visoflex apart yesterday and there is some room inside to add a PC connector on the rear. The Viso itself only uses the two front pins (I will investigate why tonight and do some measurements) in addition to the 16pins in the front. If a PC-socket can be accepted (so manual flash trigger), it can quite easily be added to the rear of the Visoflex and connected to the middle pin (and sides for ground). This will not affect the electronics of the Viso.

Like this is my idea:

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For full TTL, at least one of the front pins seems to be used. Not sure how the Viso will react if this signal get parallelled to another application. But I will try to make some experiments.

One could of course make a small circuit board and cable to the top of another flash adapter (with hotshoe on the top), but this will require some more modifications. The PC-idea is fairly simple, I would guess that DAG-camera could do it for you in the US (I could probably also do it, but I'm on the wrong side of the pond ;)). He even has some original Leica M4-PC sockets on stock so it would almost be "original Leica":

https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p183/PC_outlet_complete_for_M4.html

Cheers,

Joakim

 

[cprotz]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

Is TTL a must?

I took my Visoflex apart yesterday and there is some room inside to add a PC connector on the rear. The Viso itself only uses the two front pins (I will investigate why tonight and do some measurements) in addition to the 16pins in the front. If a PC-socket can be accepted (so manual flash trigger), it can quite easily be added to the rear of the Visoflex and connected to the middle pin (and sides for ground). This will not affect the electronics of the Viso.

Like this is my idea:

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For full TTL, at least one of the front pins seems to be used. Not sure how the Viso will react if this signal get parallelled to another application. But I will try to make some experiments.

One could of course make a small circuit board and cable to the top of another flash adapter (with hotshoe on the top), but this will require some more modifications. The PC-idea is fairly simple, I would guess that DAG-camera could do it for you in the US (I could probably also do it, but I'm on the wrong side of the pond ;)). He even has some original Leica M4-PC sockets on stock so it would almost be "original Leica":

https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p183/PC_outlet_complete_for_M4.html

Cheers,

Joakim

 

Hi

Thank you for your comprehensive answer and the pictures. I kind of came to the same conclusions. My personal business case would only be triggering the flash, my wireless flash trigger does nothing else the looking at ground and X signal. I did not want to kill a 2 week old M10M trying 🙂 Btw I'm in Switzerland and when I have necessary assurance that I donˆt kill the camera, I could even try it myself.

Regards

Christoph 

[mmx_2]

3 minutes ago, cprotz said:

Hi

Thank you for your comprehensive answer and the pictures. I kind of came to the same conclusions. My personal business case would only be triggering the flash, my wireless flash trigger does nothing else the looking at ground and X signal. I did not want to kill a 2 week old M10M trying 🙂 Btw I'm in Switzerland and when I have necessary assurance that I donˆt kill the camera, I could even try it myself.

Regards

Christoph 

That's why engineers always should have a good insurance covering all "stupidity" . I will try to buy a "stupid" flash extension cable of the local camerastore, then I can make some experiments to see if it works without destroying the Viso (not too worried about the camera). One should not use very old flashes (they w i l l ruin the camera), but my Metz is a fairly new one so it should be safe to try it.

[cprotz]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

That's why engineers always should have a good insurance covering all "stupidity" . I will try to buy a "stupid" flash extension cable of the local camerastore, then I can make some experiments to see if it works without destroying the Viso (not too worried about the camera). One should not use very old flashes (they w i l l ruin the camera), but my Metz is a fairly new one so it should be safe to try it.

If it helps I can take apart my flash trigger to check how it looks and show you some pictures. I less worry about the Visoflex as I got it 2nd hand last week for a decent price 🙂 You might have to check the position of the plug, maybe it is in the way too much, that needs to be tested. The other Idea I had was to use a flat cable (these thin types you use to connect stuff in devices), under the EVF there is some space, and connect a plug there, less stable then your solution though.

[mmx_2]

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On 7/12/2020 at 10:41 PM, cprotz said:

I just changed to a M10M and realized in the studio that I can't have both, EVF and Flashtrigger at the same time 🙂

As I belong to the fraction of this discussion that want's it (and whose eye's profit from it after a long day or with bulky lenses that block the regular viewfinder), I want to check whether somebody found a solution in the mean time.

I quickly disassembled the 020 to find the connections as in the picture. My flashtrigger is a very simple solution that basically shortens the X contact and the ground.

When I understand the picture correctly then the X contact is the little pin between the board and it contacts the metal part  of the housing on the left.

Does anybody know whether it is safely possible to e.g. solder in a cable/plug that connects to the X and ground which is then used for an external flash plug with only ground and X (that's how I understood the cable solution somebody mentioned in the discussion).

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Hi, I missed this picture before :). The flash trigger signal in the middle of the hot shoe is not connected in the Viso. The little pin (that also has a spring around it) on seems to be connected to the chassi, so it can probably be used for ground. Like I said, I'l do some more experiments tonight :). Since the flash trigger signal (middle pin) is not connected in the viso, I would assume that it will all be perfecty safe. It would be very easy to connect a cable in there, but then you will be stuck with a PC-trigger cable to the Viso forever, that's why I liked the idea of an outlet:). Amazon seems to be selling PC-outlets:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-Female-Socket-Point-Camera/dp/B00DVH12N8

Made in China of course, but I've not been able to find PC-outlets (other than DAG) anywhere else.

[mmx_2]

6 minutes ago, cprotz said:

If it helps I can take apart my flash trigger to check how it looks and show you some pictures. I less worry about the Visoflex as I got it 2nd hand last week for a decent price 🙂 You might have to check the position of the plug, maybe it is in the way too much, that needs to be tested. The other Idea I had was to use a flat cable (these thin types you use to connect stuff in devices), under the EVF there is some space, and connect a plug there, less stable then your solution though.

It would be possible to make a little circuit board and duplicate the 16-connector and then to a flat cable, but this whole operation is much more extensive :).

I do have an old Metz Leica TTL-flash, so I'll take it apart tonight, but any pictures of your trigger would be most welcome.

[mmx_2]

One of the 5 pins, the top left, is only used for the Viso (could be a simple digital signal telling the camera that the Viso is mounted). This connector is not present on M240 and SL2:

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Then I would assume that the top right pin is a digital signal ground not connected to the chassi. I will anyway measure it :).

 

[cprotz]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

It would be possible to make a little circuit board and duplicate the 16-connector and then to a flat cable, but this whole operation is much more extensive :).

I do have an old Metz Leica TTL-flash, so I'll take it apart tonight, but any pictures of your trigger would be most welcome.

I thought of that as well but it seems to be difficult to find replacement parts for the original EVF shoe and the cameraside plug with the many pins (actually knowing the name of it in English was even the bigger hurdle 🙂

[cprotz]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

Hi, I missed this picture before :). The flash trigger signal in the middle of the hot shoe is not connected in the Viso. The little pin (that also has a spring around it) on seems to be connected to the chassi, so it can probably be used for ground. Like I said, I'l do some more experiments tonight :). Since the flash trigger signal (middle pin) is not connected in the viso, I would assume that it will all be perfecty safe. It would be very easy to connect a cable in there, but then you will be stuck with a PC-trigger cable to the Viso forever, that's why I liked the idea of an outlet:). Amazon seems to be selling PC-outlets:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-Female-Socket-Point-Camera/dp/B00DVH12N8

Made in China of course, but I've not been able to find PC-outlets (other than DAG) anywhere else.

I can live with made in China, however delievry times of Aliexpress are very lame theese days (up to 2-3 months instead of weeks as B.C.) I guess I will try that.

[mmx_2]

1 minute ago, cprotz said:

I thought of that as well but it seems to be difficult to find replacement parts for the original EVF shoe and the cameraside plug with the many pins (actually knowing the name of it in English was even the bigger hurdle 🙂

The Viso is made in Indonesia, but I'm quite sure that this supplier has some strong NDAs and deals with Leica prohibiting them from selling to anyone but Leica :(. Otherwise one could have bought the parts (or worst case buy another Viso and strip for parts), but seems difficult :(.

 

 

[cprotz]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

One of the 5 pins, the top left, is only used for the Viso (could be a simple digital signal telling the camera that the Viso is mounted). This connector is not present on M240 and SL2:

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Then I would assume that the top right pin is a digital signal ground not connected to the chassi. I will anyway measure it :).

 

Hmm, I assumed ground would be in the shoe itself, the flashtrigger I have takes the middle pin, and has connectors to the shoe itself

[mmx_2]

Just now, cprotz said:

Hmm, I assumed ground would be in the shoe itself, the flashtrigger I have takes the middle pin, and has connectors to the shoe itself

Yes, ground for the flash trigger is the connector shoe (same as camera chassi. The fifth pin, I believe is "signal ground" for the data bus. If I would build something like this, I would not like to have the quite nasty trigger signal anywhere near the electronics

 

[mmx_2]

14 minutes ago, cprotz said:

I can live with made in China, however delievry times of Aliexpress are very lame theese days (up to 2-3 months instead of weeks as B.C.) I guess I will try that.

It would probably be possible to find an old camera, with PC-socket, cheap at a flea market and cannibalize it for parts :D.

 

[cprotz]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb mmx_2:

It would probably be possible to find an old camera, with PC-socket, cheap at a flea market and cannibalize it for parts :D.

 

I will check in the evening (I'm in the "real" office this week) in my photo krims krams box, cleaning up a few days ago I just "found" a few old devices to check as I had the same cannibalizing thought 🙂

[cprotz]

Btw that is the remote trigger I mentioned. Very simple model but it did a good job for me.

 

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[mmx_2]

So, I did some experiments and measurements, and well, the short (but crappy SORRY, it's just a proof of concept!!) video speaks for it self :):

 

 

 

The two pins at the top is just a digital signal telling the M10 that a Viso is mounted. I had some fear that this would also prevent the flash from firing, but that is luckily not the case :). So YES, flash and Viso CAN be done, with some modifications. Next is full TTL, but I don't have any of the newer flashes, so I'm not able to experiment with it at the moment.

Edited July 16, 2020 by mmx_2

[cprotz]

vor einer Stunde schrieb mmx_2:

So, I did some experiments and measurements, and well, the short (but crappy SORRY, it's just a proof of concept!!) video speaks for it self :):

 

 

 

The two pins at the top is just a digital signal telling the M10 that a Viso is mounted. I had some fear that this would also prevent the flash from firing, but that is luckily not the case :). So YES, flash and Viso CAN be done, with some modifications. Next is full TTL, but I don't have any of the newer flashes, so I'm not able to experiment with it at the moment.

Cool! Should you ever come to Zurich I'll invite you for a beer 🙂

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[cprotz]

mmx_2

Am 16.7.2020 um 20:41 schrieb mmx_2:

So, I did some experiments and measurements, and well, the short (but crappy SORRY, it's just a proof of concept!!) video speaks for it self :):

 

 

 

The two pins at the top is just a digital signal telling the M10 that a Viso is mounted. I had some fear that this would also prevent the flash from firing, but that is luckily not the case :). So YES, flash and Viso CAN be done, with some modifications. Next is full TTL, but I don't have any of the newer flashes, so I'm not able to experiment with it at the moment.

The part arrived, now I need to find some time for the modding 🙂