M10? - Sorry, no!

[apertur]

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Hey, same here. New FW and smooth LV on screen but when panning with EVF it looks like bumps on panning road. Bummer as on the screen it all looks fine.

[chris_tribble]

As I hope to collect my M10 tomorrow, I am pleased to read your remarks Malvolio.

I am coming from an M9-P, which I will keep.

John - you won't regret it! I know it's a cliche, but it's the best camera I've ever owned for all round take it anywhere usability.  Love it.

[erl]

Not unexpectedly, my M10 has not arrived yet. The dealer has no forward info to offer either. Supply seems very sporadic.

I am being both patient and impatient at the same time.

[Inbred9_88]

I took delivery of my silver M10 a couple of weeks ago and it is the camera I have been waiting for - still plan to keep my M9 and it is interesting to see the difference between the two cameras. 

 

With Leica  hand grips on both cameras the M10 is 2 to 3 mm higher in fact which was a surprise ... although depth is about 2mm shallower ..

 

The much better ISO performance is already noticeable ... and the view finder is heaps better on the M10

 

shutter noise is more film like on the M9 and both are ultimately lovely cameras ...

 

One thing I would appreciate is a much better camera strap supplied with the M10 - I appreciate there is a large after market in accessories but having paid £5600 for the camera body I am sure a little more could be put into improving the strap - it is hard and poor quality leather in my mind and the rings to attach to the M10 are also noticeably of a poor quality too ...

 

I don't miss video - this was one reason I discounted the M240 in fact as I have an Olympus EM1 which I use for video when I need to. 

[Guest]

Well I too in this topic / thread had posted a solid "NO" to the upgrade to the M10. I don't see the real advantages of the camera over my present 240's and certainly not for the B&W produced by my MM1. The ISO knob on top of the camera is irrelevant, ( maybe even an annoying affectation ), because to change the ISO settings on a 240 is probably as quick as it is using the M10's ISO knob, and anyway how many times, shoots, have I found it necessary to change the ISO quickly or often? Very few.

The fact that Leica still has us deal with the removing of the complete camera base, and most likely any case that the camera is wearing too when we need to change battery and/or the SDHC card is ridiculous, they have the answer to that with the base door in the Q and that works very well even with a half case on that has the cut-out for the port, ( I've the Giotto ). There's other niggly things too that truly should have been addressed with the M10. I understand that the battery has to be thinner because they made the camera body thinner to satisfy many of us, myself included, who've been banging on for ever since the 240's came out as to how "fat" the 240/246's are, but to have to buy yet another set of batteries and chargers to add to the MM1's, the 240's and the Q's, is a real pain.

My constant, and probably to some petty, gripe that the red paint Auto setting, ( A ), on the shutter dial is all but invisible in dim lighting and not that much better in regular daylight could have, should have, been easily addressed with a simple long white engraved line at the A setting to readily visibly differentiate "A" from the other shutter settings, I'm still looking for someone to do that safely for me on my Leicas instead of the yellow camera tape arrow they all wear……..but for me it should have been sorted by Leica by now. Even an extremely useful optional locking of the shutter dial, ( like on my Panasonic GH4/5's ), shouldn't be beyond Leica's capabilities.

More finder information I hear from those that have the M10 would be good too, ( I've not yet handled the M10 ), and does the camera still have the clunky red LED numerics that seem to have been inherited from the first digital watches and have been in all digital M's to date? I hope not. 

 

So anyway I've just placed my order for an M10, but I'm in no rush to wait for it to materialise because I'll probably think of a number of other reasons that I am not going to like it in the meantime, like I didn't like the M8's M9's, the MM1, the 240's and the Q that I still have and use as tools that earn my living still….Actually it was true that I didn't, still don't, like the M8, but Leica had to start digital somewhere I guess.

[apertur]

You can feel the A position even in the dark. I think it is OK as is.

[andalus]

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Silly to trade the M for the M10. I was in New England and even used the movie function on the M and enjoyed it. Sure, the sensor is better in dim conditions for the M10. The camera menu is simpler. It works better with the EVF. But frankly if you can't take good pics with an M for a bit longer, at least until an M11 appears, you are wasting money on the M10. Even Irwin Puts suggests as much. Never forget that for Leica the lenses are the gems...

[jaapv]

Well I too in this topic / thread had posted a solid "NO" to the upgrade to the M10. I don't see the real advantages of the camera over my present 240's and certainly not for the B&W produced by my MM1. The ISO knob on top of the camera is irrelevant, ( maybe even an annoying affectation ), because to change the ISO settings on a 240 is probably as quick as it is using the M10's ISO knob, and anyway how many times, shoots, have I found it necessary to change the ISO quickly or often? Very few.

The fact that Leica still has us deal with the removing of the complete camera base, and most likely any case that the camera is wearing too when we need to change battery and/or the SDHC card is ridiculous, they have the answer to that with the base door in the Q and that works very well even with a half case on that has the cut-out for the port, ( I've the Giotto ). There's other niggly things too that truly should have been addressed with the M10. I understand that the battery has to be thinner because they made the camera body thinner to satisfy many of us, myself included, who've been banging on for ever since the 240's came out as to how "fat" the 240/246's are, but to have to buy yet another set of batteries and chargers to add to the MM1's, the 240's and the Q's, is a real pain.

My constant, and probably to some petty, gripe that the red paint Auto setting, ( A ), on the shutter dial is all but invisible in dim lighting and not that much better in regular daylight could have, should have, been easily addressed with a simple long white engraved line at the A setting to readily visibly differentiate "A" from the other shutter settings, I'm still looking for someone to do that safely for me on my Leicas instead of the yellow camera tape arrow they all wear……..but for me it should have been sorted by Leica by now. Even an extremely useful optional locking of the shutter dial, ( like on my Panasonic GH4/5's ), shouldn't be beyond Leica's capabilities.

More finder information I hear from those that have the M10 would be good too, ( I've not yet handled the M10 ), and does the camera still have the clunky red LED numerics that seem to have been inherited from the first digital watches and have been in all digital M's to date? I hope not. 

 

So anyway I've just placed my order for an M10, but I'm in no rush to wait for it to materialise because I'll probably think of a number of other reasons that I am not going to like it in the meantime, like I didn't like the M8's M9's, the MM1, the 240's and the Q that I still have and use as tools that earn my living still….Actually it was true that I didn't, still don't, like the M8, but Leica had to start digital somewhere I guess.

In that case why place the order at all? Appears to me to be a waste of money. You clearly have enough Leicas to satisfy the most fastidious of photographers.

[digitalfx]

Silly to trade the M for the M10. I was in New England and even used the movie function on the M and enjoyed it. Sure, the sensor is better in dim conditions for the M10. The camera menu is simpler. It works better with the EVF. But frankly if you can't take good pics with an M for a bit longer, at least until an M11 appears, you are wasting money on the M10. Even Irwin Puts suggests as much. Never forget that for Leica the lenses are the gems...

 

 

Not silly at all...its all relative. 

You could also apply your rationale to the M8. The M8 takes exceptional images as well, as does the M9. Its not so much about image quality as it is about the overall experience. The M10 is significantly faster than any of the previous M's...this alone may be a justification for some users to upgrade. Some may wish to upgrade strictly for the high ISO. Just because you and Erwin don't feel like its worth the upgrade doesn't mean everyone should feel the same.

Everyone has their own reasons to upgrade or to stay put and none of these reasons are silly.

 

Personally I find the upgrade from the M240 significant...but thats just me. Until you actually spend quality time with the camera you should reserve judgment.

[Guest]

Come on guys, it is all tongue in cheek……..No I wouldn't get rid of the 240's, and yes I do use pretty much all the Leica's I have, ( 2x 240's, a MM1 and a Q ), but despite the "flaws" I see in the M10 if and when my number comes up I will probably go through with it. If I don't like it I'll know soon enough so it will go up for sale and I'll probably get as much, if not more, than I'd paid for it…..But anyway by all accounts that day is a long way off.

[digitalfx]

Come on guys, it is all tongue in cheek……..No I wouldn't get rid of the 240's, and yes I do use pretty much all the Leica's I have, ( 2x 240's, a MM1 and a Q ), but despite the "flaws" I see in the M10 if and when my number comes up I will probably go through with it. If I don't like it I'll know soon enough so it will go up for sale and I'll probably get as much, if not more, than I'd paid for it…..But anyway by all accounts that day is a long way off.

 

 

as a fellow serial upgrader...I suggest you will be pleasantly surprised and quickly fall in love

The M10 is everything Ive always wanted in an M...best M yet IMO. So sadly I predict you won't be able to profit on a quick sale

[Guest]

Hello digitalfx, I'm happy that you like the M10 and it's working well for you, always good to know and reading of the experience of others on this and other forums is very helpful especially for me when it's nearly impossible to handle an M10 right now because of where I live and because of my traveling / work schedule.

I'm not a serial upgrader, I've kept the 240's since they first came out, didn't upgrade to the MP 240 as I didn't consider that upgrade worthwhile for my use. Kept the MM1 through three sensor changes because I preferred the CCD sensor to the newer MM's CMOS, and the Q? Well there's nothing to upgrade to in that line and I find it just about perfect for what it is and can do.

The M10's jury is still out for me as I would need to use it before deciding whether to keep it or not when I can get my hands on one for a useful amount of time.

I still have the reservations I mentioned and I have to see whether or not they really matter after I've a chance to put one through it's paces. All the gear I own, stills and cinema, have to work well for me because it's how I earn my living. They are tools, no more no less. If there's a better tool I will probably go for it.

[Surge]

I am so glad my M10 doesn't have the video function, the primary reason I didn't go for the M240.

I don't know why some people are so bothered by the video function on the M240. If you don't want to use it, don't!

 

Personally, I don't like that Leica removed it from the M10. Sometimes it's handy to have. Video's with M lenses are interesting.

[Surge]

Video requires -

 

•  Heatsinks and additional space (volume) for the sensor heat to dissipate

 

Seems like there could be an issue with over-heating of the M10 sensor. Perhaps the additional heatsinks for video use would have come in handy for still image use.

[Surge]

I haven't read through all 30 pages, but I didn't notice anyone talk about some of the real deficiencies of the M10 vs the M240:

 

- increased viewfinder magnification; this is a big deal if you shoot wide-angle because it means you can't see the framelines on a 28mm lens with the OVF. I would rather use the EVF for the occasional telephoto shoot, which is not what the M series is good at, then for wide-angle use.

 

- reduced battery life; personally, I would rather have an extra ~2mm thickness

 

- ISO dial is not a deal-breaker, but it's dumb. First, fine adjustment must still be made through the menu. Second, the user interface is inconsistent with the way the other dials work. Why lift up to turn and down to lock? Is that how the shutter, aperture, or focus work?! Of course not. I'm really scratching my head over why Leica broke one of the biggest rules in UI design. Perhaps as a nostalgic throwback to when you had to lift the dial to rewind the film?

[Dirk Mandeville]

I don't know why some people are so bothered by the video function on the M240. If you don't want to use it, don't.

Read back through this thread and the other one on the subject of video. Lots of discussion explaining why some of us feel this way, assuming you actually care to understand. Thinking "if you don't want to use it, don't" ignores a lot of real ramifications that video entails. Leica adding video was one of the reasons I didn't buy the M240. And the lack of video, along with the other improvements, is why I have ordered the M10.

[pico]

One thing I find interesting about the M10 besides it's ergonomics, viewfinder/rangefinder and pixel count (all of which are enticing enough), is the fact that its firmware is still being improved.

 

IMO, some of the problems software support such as C1 has is the moving target of the M10's firmware which is still not settled enough for them to invest within.

[Jeff S]

I haven't read through all 30 pages, but I didn't notice anyone talk about some of the real deficiencies of the M10 vs the M240:

 

- increased viewfinder magnification; this is a big deal if you shoot wide-angle because it means you can't see the framelines on a 28mm lens with the OVF. I would rather use the EVF for the occasional telephoto shoot, which is not what the M series is good at, then for wide-angle use.

 

But the eyepiece on the M10 has a larger opening than in the M240 and eye relief has been increased 50%, which makes seeing the 28mm frame lines even easier, especially for eyeglass users. This is one of the key improvements that has been widely reported.

 

Besides not reading the thread, I suspect that you haven't actually handled the camera.

 

Jeff

[garygraphy]

As good as all the reviews online are, sometimes it is easier to figure out the camera if you just tried it.

 

But the eyepiece on the M10 has a larger opening than in the M240 and eye relief has been increased 50%, which makes seeing the 28mm frame lines even easier, especially for eyeglass users. This is one of the key improvements that has been widely reported.

Besides not reading the thread, I suspect that you haven't actually handled the camera.

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

Indeed...but then we'd eliminate a significant amount of forum banter....on a broad array of topics. So much easier to write than than take the time to experience.

 

Jeff