Stef63 Posted March 4, 2017 Share #421 Posted March 4, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) We may speculate what may or may not happen, but reality demands that we will have to make a decision based on the facts known at a point of time. Made my decision already 6 weeks ago. Dumped the m240. For my needs the M10 is the better camera, only by a slight margin, but it is an improvement for the things I care about. But my needs and the things I care about my be not relevant for you. No problem with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Hi Stef63, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jmahto Posted March 4, 2017 Share #422 Posted March 4, 2017 For the folks who keep referring to the only 6 votes demanding video in the survey, I have to say this. The questions are not well formed. It simply says 6 people will not switch to M10 due to lack of video. It doesn't count people like me who may switch to M10 for other improvements and will supplement for video capability in other devices but would have been happier with video capability in one camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2017 Share #423 Posted March 5, 2017 Except that my conclusion was different I'm very happy with my switch. Yesterday I was able to grab a snapshot of an unusual bird in the far distance. I was able to identify a juvenile Circus Aeroguinosus from it. Given that juvenile raptors can be very difficult to spot, I was happy to be able to shoot 800 mm @ 1/30th . There is no Leica combo that could have gotten the shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 5, 2017 Share #424 Posted March 5, 2017 For the folks who keep referring to the only 6 votes demanding video in the survey, I have to say this. The questions are not well formed. It simply says 6 people will not switch to M10 due to lack of video. It doesn't count people like me who may switch to M10 for other improvements and will supplement for video capability in other devices but would have been happier with video capability in one camera. Still seems pretty relevant in this thread. The thread isn't about whether someone would have preferred video in the M10. It is about someone who says they will not buy the M10 primarily because it lacks video. The survey is a pretty accurate indicator that, at least in this community, such people are in the extreme minority. In this case, you fall within the majority, because you intend to buy the M10 even though it lacks video (which you would have preferred it to have). Leica's description of their customer responses to a survey indicated similar proportions. Most respondents didn't want video or just didn't care one way or the other, while a few wanted video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 5, 2017 Share #425 Posted March 5, 2017 the word outrage proves you don't get it... Oh, I don't know. Paul's initial posts reflected a high degree of outrage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2017 Share #426 Posted March 5, 2017 Oh, I don't know. Paul's initial posts reflected a high degree of outrage.Hmm, disappointed might be a better description. Me, it was just the last push, as I have been thinking about the drawbacks of a 12 kg backpack before. Now I have a far more versatile kit in a Billingham for Leica bag with one sidebag weighing 4 kg at the cost of a smaller, but still very capable sensor. The lenses turn out to be worthy of their Leica label.Excellent video incorporated, impressive stabilisation, cheap by Leica standards. The 240 ( I'll possibly hang on to it) MM1 and M9 are more than enough now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 5, 2017 Share #427 Posted March 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm very happy with my switch. Yesterday I was able to grab a snapshot of an unusual bird in the far distance. I was able to identify a juvenile Circus Aeroguinosus from it. Given that juvenile raptors can be very difficult to spot, I was happy to be able to shoot 800 mm @ 1/30th . There is no Leica combo that could have gotten the shot. Not even this one?: http://newatlas.com/prototype-rifle-leica-gun-camera-auction/37919/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2017 Share #428 Posted March 5, 2017 I couldn't begin to dream of being able to afford one. Too short, too slow and not stablized Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 5, 2017 Share #429 Posted March 5, 2017 Still seems pretty relevant in this thread. The thread isn't about whether someone would have preferred video in the M10. It is about someone who says they will not buy the M10 primarily because it lacks video. The survey is a pretty accurate indicator that, at least in this community, such people are in the extreme minority. In this case, you fall within the majority, because you intend to buy the M10 even though it lacks video (which you would have preferred it to have). Leica's description of their customer responses to a survey indicated similar proportions. Most respondents didn't want video or just didn't care one way or the other, while a few wanted video. Not quite. I fall into wait and watch (2nd question in the survey). I am evaluating gains vs loss. So far, based on what I see, gains over M240 is not convincing enough to me to accept the missing features. I am sliding to third option in the survey. I may not switch to M10 and maybe I am not alone. Survey does not give any insight into that since it mixes generic questions (first three) with a feature specific video question. If you want real survey then ask right questions. Let me try with another example. Long exposure and LENR off is an issue with still photography and many have voiced their opinion in this forum. These folks (most) are not going to reject M just because of these issues but it doesn't mean these folks don't want long exposure and LENR off. In nutshell, many more folks (than 6) might want video in M. You just can't use that survey to conclude against it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted March 5, 2017 Share #430 Posted March 5, 2017 I was at the Leica Store in Hong Kong last week and got to spend a few minutes with the M10. Loved the new thin look. Didn't care for the extra weight. Found the IQ to be pretty darn good. And the VF and focus patch was AMAZING. The real test for me was to see how the store manager's face rendered in the artificial indoor lighting. The auto WB setting didn't, IMHO, adequately correct for the lighting and the skin looked more orange than in real life. I then tried the tungsten, fluorescent cool and fluorescent warm settings, and I think one other setting, and each produced a result that was much cooler than in real life. My conclusion is that the M10 is not an indoor skin master.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 5, 2017 Share #431 Posted March 5, 2017 I was at the Leica Store in Hong Kong last week and got to spend a few minutes with the M10. Loved the new thin look. Didn't care for the extra weight. Found the IQ to be pretty darn good. And the VF and focus patch was AMAZING. The real test for me was to see how the store manager's face rendered in the artificial indoor lighting. The auto WB setting didn't, IMHO, adequately correct for the lighting and the skin looked more orange than in real life. I then tried the tungsten, fluorescent cool and fluorescent warm settings, and I think one other setting, and each produced a result that was much cooler than in real life. My conclusion is that the M10 is not an indoor skin master.... It could be due to mixed lighting. Indoor lighting is always tricky. I won't knock M10 for that. Shoot DNG and handle in post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted March 5, 2017 Share #432 Posted March 5, 2017 Shoot DNG and handle in post. Eat your heart out.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 5, 2017 Share #433 Posted March 5, 2017 Not quite. I fall into wait and watch (2nd question in the survey). I am evaluating gains vs loss. So far, based on what I see, gains over M240 is not convincing enough to me to accept the missing features. I am sliding to third option in the survey. I may not switch to M10 and maybe I am not alone. I understand where you are at. It is where I was with the M240. I didn't like that they included video. I didn't like the implementation of the evf. And the extra ISO was not sufficient to justify the cost to upgrade from the M9. So I didn't buy it. The M10 has mostly fixed all of the issues I had with the M240 and some I have with my M9, so I can't wait to upgrade. Sometimes it just makes sense to skip a model to really feel like you are getting your money's worth. In nutshell, many more folks (than 6) might want video in M. You just can't use that survey to conclude against it. I think, as I said, the survey is a pretty good indicator that folks who absolutely will not buy the M10 solely because it lacks video (like the O.P.) are in the extreme minority. Nothing more, nothing less. It does not indicate anything about those who might prefer the M10 had video. In the context of this particular thread, I still believe it's valid to refer to the survey. It's also valid to note it's limitations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2017 Share #434 Posted March 5, 2017 A survey is as good as the selection of the participants. The members of this forum are hardly representative of photographers in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 5, 2017 Share #435 Posted March 5, 2017 What are the odds that "photographers in general" will care the slightest bit about whether a $6600 camera has video or not? "Photographers in general" have camera budgets of $2000 or less. While I was at the shop for 4 years, we sold ten $599 Canon rebels for every Canon 5D(Mk.x), and ten (at least) 5Ds for every Leica M digital. Leica's goal of getting more than 1% of the market depends on sub-$2000 cameras, not the features on their $6000+ camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2017 Share #436 Posted March 5, 2017 Exactly my point, Andy. Any marketing survey based on a a targeted customer base will be a self-fulfilling profecy. If Leica asks a group of selected photographers whether they prefer video the outcome is pre-determined. Good for sales to that group, but bound to trigger my reaction: "nobody asked me!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 5, 2017 Share #437 Posted March 5, 2017 Well, they didn't ask me either (except in Andreas' after-the-fact poll). I was making the point that "photographers in general" would be just as poor a sample - because 99% of them would answer the next question with a resounding "Are you out of your mind?!" The next question being: "If we added video to this $6600 camera, would you buy it then?" Not because it did or didn't have video, but because 99% of "photographers in general" will never, ever be in the Leica M market. No matter what features it does or does not include. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 5, 2017 Share #438 Posted March 5, 2017 And this forum is nowhere near representative of those from Asia (east Asia and China in particular) who presumably are a vital part of Leica's new and growing market. I'd be surprised if many of them had the same antipathy towards a non-intrusive and ignorable video that is on display here. I have no interest in video, but as my daughter tells me, I'm old, in steep physical and mental decline and have nothing else to look forward to (I love my daughter and her SOH). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 5, 2017 Share #439 Posted March 5, 2017 FWIW I ticked the "no real advantages" button in the poll; those included lack of video (a step backwards IMO), but it certainly wasn't the only issue, so I didn't tick the "no video" button. A USB connection is so far from my usage that it didn't figure in my thoughts, but I can understand those who might want it. Absence of a silent shutter, LENR, antique baseplate, clunky EVF........ all these were factors. None of them are "never in a million years" issues, but they all played a part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 5, 2017 Share #440 Posted March 5, 2017 Oh, I don't know. Paul's initial posts reflected a high degree of outrage. Hmm, disappointed might be a better description. Me, it was just the last push, as I have been thinking about the drawbacks of a 12 kg backpack before. Now I have a far more versatile kit in a Billingham for Leica bag with one sidebag weighing 4 kg at the cost of a smaller, but still very capable sensor. The lenses turn out to be worthy of their Leica label. Excellent video incorporated, impressive stabilisation, cheap by Leica standards. The 240 ( I'll possibly hang on to it) MM1 and M9 are more than enough now. Yeah, it was outrage, and so what? but you are wrong in the sense that it was done to try and convince anyone. It was just a reaction and I don't feel a need to limit or inhibit that - photography is my life and my livelihood and I have a deep sense of passion for it. It doesn't bother me what others think of that. But that reaction was short lived and I accept just having to move on yet still feel rather disappointed by it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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