adan Posted February 12, 2017 Share #181 Posted February 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) At the moment the M10 is the most up-to-date version of the M line. All anyone is saying is that they'd prefer it if it were slightly different in some respects, and included one or two features from the M240 that they liked. I really don't see any failure of logic here. Well, it's the newest. Obviously those who want video don't think it is up-to-date at all. And I don't disagree with that, just the assumption that "newest" and "up-to-date" are synonyms. The M-A is the newest film M - and it certainly isn't as up-to-date as the AE-metering M7. Just newer. M240 video shooters could just imagine their cameras are "M7s" - and the M10 is the M-A, smaller, but less capable. A throwback. Not something that works for them. Be glad they own the big-boy that does everything, and look forward to it getting some of the characteristics of the M10 (LCD, newer EVF, maybe the ISO dial) as time goes on (digital progress is always a game of leapfrog). Politically - it might have soothed some feathers if Leica had introduced the M241 (or whatever it will be) right alongside the M10. With at least the new sensor, and perhaps other M10-like features, along with video etc. But Leica likely has a stock of M240s to unload first, so it will take a while. I don't recall M7 owners getting all upset because the M-A deleted AE, and any metering at all. They just didn't buy one. (or - were happy to give up AE they didn't use, for a smaller camera and battery independence). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Hi adan, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 12, 2017 Share #182 Posted February 12, 2017 Well I disagree...this isn't about wanting more. This is about understanding a very basic need. 24fps is a basic requirement for video cameras today. I really have to question if Leica hired a real consultant prior to implementing video. And an HDMI output? Quality audio inputs? Monitor outputs? Dual card slots? Those are pretty basic requirements for video cameras today, no? And... Surely you see my point? It makes a lot of sense for Leica to split the video from the M and develop that in another platform, while focusing the M back to its photographic roots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 12, 2017 Share #183 Posted February 12, 2017 Well I keep saying it - not everything needs to have hollywood feature length quality, HDMI, serious audio etc. The video in the M240 is much better than the video in the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 12, 2017 Share #184 Posted February 12, 2017 Perhaps, but looking at it from another perspective... Leica released this camera to specifically appeal to photography purists. A few people are complaining that it doesn't include video, even though Leica offers multiple other cameras that do include video, and undoubtedly will offer upgrades to those in the future. The photography purists are looking at this and thinking "what's wrong with us getting the camera we want? You already have the camera you want. Let us have our camera, too." But they haven't got the camera they want. That is what they're disappointed about. Anyway, this could go on forever. The point is, I feel sympathy for those people who are disappointed that they won't be able to use the latest M camera in the way they used the previous one, and so won't be able to use the M10's improvements without making compromises that the rest of us more fortunate customers don't have to make. Also, I'm not keen on the notion of "purists". But that really is a different conversation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted February 12, 2017 Share #185 Posted February 12, 2017 No, this does not work well at all with video. The camera will decide willy nilly when to change the ISO and those changes will be evident in the video and look like crap. Not a solution at all. Ok, I get it. For video, we are supposed to get a Sony camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 12, 2017 Share #186 Posted February 12, 2017 And an HDMI output? Quality audio inputs? Monitor outputs? Dual card slots? Those are pretty basic requirements for video cameras today, no? And... Surely you see my point? It makes a lot of sense for Leica to split the video from the M and develop that in another platform, while focusing the M back to its photographic roots. Gotcha. I was referring to the M240 in my post. But to address this yes these are typical requirements, but are not necessary on an M On the M we need 24/25fps, a reasonably low compression, log or flat image option and simple audio input. All those other things are better suited for the SL body. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share #187 Posted February 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) For the sake of argument: Prove it. You seem to have the finger on the pulse of the youth. Well, I have tried to sell my Canon 1Ds III. But then I have to accept a much lower price than much cheaper Canon with video capability. Because the buyers ' want video'... As such, Leica M (240) is a pretty unique camera... I should keep it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 12, 2017 Share #188 Posted February 12, 2017 Ok, I get it. For video, we are supposed to get a Sony camera. Or an SL or a Panasonic GM5 or a number of other cameras that can do video well and have the basic ports and available lenses that will allow quality video shooting. The M platform just is not set up for high quality video without extensive revision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 12, 2017 Share #189 Posted February 12, 2017 Gotcha. I was referring to the M240 in my post. But to address this yes these are typical requirements, but are not necessary on an M On the M we need 24/25fps, a reasonably low compression, log or flat image option and simple audio input. All those other things are better suited for the SL body. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro You wouldn't also want at least the ability to monitor audio with a head phone port? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 12, 2017 Share #190 Posted February 12, 2017 You wouldn't also want at least the ability to monitor audio with a head phone port? It would be great, but on an M body I can live without this to remain compact. It's a still camera after all not a video camera. I don't want another M240, I love the M10 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted February 12, 2017 Share #191 Posted February 12, 2017 Or an SL or a Panasonic GM5 or a number of other cameras that can do video well and have the basic ports and available lenses that will allow quality video shooting. The M platform just is not set up for high quality video without extensive revision. Sorry, by your argumentation, the SL is not a good video camera either. The lenses still have aperture clicks, it is still skipping lines, it has the issues with using the full sensor size. After all, it has the same main processor and probably a very similar sensor to the M10. Not sure why I should get a GM5, when I already have the far more capable E-M1. And with the MkII I even get 4k video with sensor stabilization. So its either µFT, or if I want proper full-frame video, a Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumolux Posted February 12, 2017 Share #192 Posted February 12, 2017 I have video on my iPhone. See no purpose in Leica creating a iLeicaphone. Long live the M10! Thanks Leica! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 12, 2017 Share #193 Posted February 12, 2017 Sorry, by your argumentation, the SL is not a good video camera either. The lenses still have aperture clicks, it is still skipping lines, it has the issues with using the full sensor size. After all, it has the same main processor and probably a very similar sensor to the M10. Not sure why I should get a GM5, when I already have the far more capable E-M1. And with the MkII I even get 4k video with sensor stabilization. So its either µFT, or if I want proper full-frame video, a Sony.The SL doesn't use the full sensor, it records 4K cropped. It's not bad, but could be better. De-clicked iris has nothing to do with the camera, you can use R lenses that are modified for Cine use on the M or SL. Leica also makes a PL adapter so you can use any cinema lens made. BTW They also make a PL adapter for the M240 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted February 12, 2017 Share #194 Posted February 12, 2017 This is my last comment on this whole video thing because it is a moot point anyway. When the SL was released, I got to play with it for a couple of days, and the video quality with M lenses was surprisingly good. Yes, there are all kinds of reasons why it isn't perfect (no built in ND filters etc.), but I was thinking that it would be a really cool camera to mount in a tight spot, like under a windshield for an additional angle. I didn't buy an SL because of its size, but I was hoping for a comparable sensor for the next generation M camera. I think we all agree that we got that. I was just a little disappointed that I can't shoot a dream sequence with my Noctilux on it, that's all. Judging from the reactions here, Leica did well in not including video, and if it is possible to include it easily in the future, then they may just sell a couple of more M10Ps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 12, 2017 Share #195 Posted February 12, 2017 Sorry, by your argumentation, the SL is not a good video camera either. The lenses still have aperture clicks, it is still skipping lines, it has the issues with using the full sensor size. After all, it has the same main processor and probably a very similar sensor to the M10. Not sure why I should get a GM5, when I already have the far more capable E-M1. And with the MkII I even get 4k video with sensor stabilization. So its either µFT, or if I want proper full-frame video, a Sony. No, your facts aren't right. The SL does not skip lines in 4K and Super 35 format, and there are a ton of very high quality lenses that will work with the SL in that format--literally 100s of them--you will need the PL adapter, but Leica makes that and it is a non-issue. Sorry, I had a typo on the Panasonic. I meant the GH5, which is a very capable video camera and yes the E-M1 is much better than what the M10 would be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 12, 2017 Share #196 Posted February 12, 2017 I did digital video for the day-job many years ago with the only equipment we could afford, a new Canon XL2. Oi, the blooming issues (which I mitigated with various Tiffen diffusing filters), and resolution good for the day, but not today. Today's SLR digital cameras are pretty good, but after we hired a professional video photographer and gave him a monster budget I was blessed to witness the Real Thing. I believe Leica's M video can produce marvelous results - when handled by a competent videographer, so give some slack, and consider your own nativity and nonprofessional commercial experience when criticizing our contributor, BerndReini, who wishes to supplement his pro-video to do B-Roll with a small camera. He is likely to do better video than you can. It is his area of expertise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 12, 2017 Share #197 Posted February 12, 2017 The SL doesn't use the full sensor, it records 4K cropped. It's not bad, but could be better. De-clicked iris has nothing to do with the camera, you can use R lenses that are modified for Cine use on the M or SL. Leica also makes a PL adapter so you can use any cinema lens made. BTW They also make a PL adapter for the M240 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Yeah, but the does the M240 shoot in Super 35 format? If it does, I didn't realize that and if it doesn't then there isn't a lot of point in using a PL adapter as almost all lenses in PL mount are Super 35 or smaller format, and even the few that are FF 35mm why would you use such a lens with such limited video on the M240. Seems like a non-starter to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucerne Posted February 12, 2017 Share #198 Posted February 12, 2017 Gotcha. I was referring to the M240 in my post. But to address this yes these are typical requirements, On the M we need 24/25fps, Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Optional 24 / 25 fps is available on the latest firmware of the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 12, 2017 Share #199 Posted February 12, 2017 Optional 24 / 25 fps is available on the latest firmware of the M240. Just great...I only asked for this for 3 years. Sadly I sold my M240 in anticipation of the new M10 before the FW update...but why did it take 2 years. I was also promised FW updates to support the PL adapter which never materialized so I ended up giving it away for pennies on the dollar Bottom line is video on the 240 was an afterthought and was poorly done. Shame because the M has so much potential. But my experience with Leica's video on both the M240 and SL is exactly why I'm happy that the M10 doesn't have it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 12, 2017 Share #200 Posted February 12, 2017 Yeah, but the does the M240 shoot in Super 35 format? If it does, I didn't realize that and if it doesn't then there isn't a lot of point in using a PL adapter as almost all lenses in PL mount are Super 35 or smaller format, and even the few that are FF 35mm why would you use such a lens with such limited video on the M240. Seems like a non-starter to me. I don't recall...see post above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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