lct Posted July 22, 2017 Share #901 Posted July 22, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) How long are your blackouts in EVF mode? My "old" Fuji X-E2's is almost instant. Even my little Pany LX100 does better. Again the M10 is certainly the best retro camera ever made. As long as there are customers to buy it, so much the better for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 Hi lct, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter H Posted July 22, 2017 Share #902 Posted July 22, 2017 How long are your blackouts in EVF mode? My "old" Fuji X-E2's is almost instant. Even my little Pany LX100 does better. Again the M10 is certainly the best retro camera ever made. As long as there are customers to buy it, so much the better for Leica. I only use the EVF very rarely. I don't regard it as an integral part of the camera since the main reason for using an M is its optical viewfinder which I regard as superior to anything on any other camera. It's a very nice accessory though and adds a great deal of versatility. I don't know how long the blackout is. It's never affected me in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 22, 2017 Share #903 Posted July 22, 2017 Hardly surprising if you don't use your EVF. None of my modern cameras behave like that. Retro camera for retro users perhaps? Just kidding, horses for courses as i said too often already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 22, 2017 Share #904 Posted July 22, 2017 Hardly surprising if you don't use your EVF. None of my modern cameras behave like that. Retro camera for retro users perhaps? Just kidding, horses for courses as i said too often already. I like EVFs. I like the Fuji X-Pro 2's viewfinder, and It gives me the option of an OVF built-in and very well implemented. But as with the Leica, I find myself only using the stronger of the options: with the Fuji I use the EVF 99% of the time, and it's the other way round with the M10. The M10's EVF is far better than the M240's though, and is slightly nicer to look through than the Fuji's, (better colour and clarity and detail) even if it does take a fraction of a second longer to refresh after shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 22, 2017 Share #905 Posted July 22, 2017 I know all this Peter. I don't dispute your choice of course. Just explaining why this is "M10 sorry no" for me, that's all . But i will stay active in this thread as long as i'm not reassured that digital RFs are not a dead end for Leica. The least i can say is "Das Wesentliche" and the retro (sorry) M10 don't reassure me so far. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted July 22, 2017 Share #906 Posted July 22, 2017 I’ve only used live view on my M10 to see if it worked but I don’t resent its presence. I can appreciate how useful its focusing aids must be for people with vision problems or focal lengths outside the M’s usual range. As it happens I’ve had my cataracts seen to and, after many years of practice, I don’t need LV to tell me what my 21mm lens can see and my longest lens is 90mm. But I do appreciate that some people care more about precision in their framing than I do. I have used the Visoflex from my T, again, to see how it worked on the M10. It seemed OK to me but it’s not something I care much about one way or the other. It’s a mystery to me why anyone would choose to use an EVF on an M in preference to the rangefinding optical viewfinder unless there was a compelling reason why they couldn’t use the rangefinder. I don’t think that makes me a ‘retro user’. I think I’m just someone who has come to like the coupled rangefinder way of focusing and framing. On this of all forums I hope it’s OK to confess to that without being considered a devotee of some weird nostalgia cult. The M10 could be the camera that makes the coupled rangefinder modern again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2017 Share #907 Posted July 22, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) This has become a very long thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozu_shutterbugger Posted July 23, 2017 Share #908 Posted July 23, 2017 I would love to have a slimmer M-body. It confirms that Leica listens to customers having this fixed. I haven't quite caught up with what Leica calls a 'better sensor'. But it sounds good. Better quality of high ISO settings is great. But still I don't find the improvements worth the cost of up-grading. Due to: - Video is a must on today's cameras. A camera without it belong to the past. I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist. The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'. Compact and convenient. When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again. It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today. They will insist on having video included. No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today. - Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition. Reducing it is going to create problems. This must be solved! What about having a big battery as an 'block add-on' at the bottom of the camera? As the motors were attached on the analogue M's? - How good is a 'much better sensor'? So good that no software created lens adjustments have to be made? Can we use other brand lenses, like Zeiss and Voigtländer, without having purple egdes? I have posted earlier on this topic back when i had two 240s. Long story short I now have the M10 & M-P 240. BOY the difference is huge!! The new Sensor is really good, Huge difference from what the M 240 can capture in my opinion. The ISO dial although may seem a useless feature, it means a lot in day to day. The camera feels light & slim. The menu system and the buttons are a huge upgrade from what we had in the past. Yes you will need new batteries and a view finder. But the rangefinder is now easier to focus. So in my high opinion, its worth upgrading for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted July 24, 2017 Share #909 Posted July 24, 2017 One thing I have not seen mentioned is that, with the ISO knob the increments double each time. However for a finer setting, eg faster than 200 but slower than 400 (320 ISO), you can use the 'A' and in the menu opt for finer gradations. (Well, I am sure you all know this already, but a recent discovery for me – to help with a new 75mm lens acquisition, where faster shutter settings are desirable .) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 24, 2017 Share #910 Posted July 24, 2017 One thing I have not seen mentioned is that, with the ISO knob the increments double each time. However for a finer setting, eg faster than 200 but slower than 400 (320 ISO), you can use the 'A' and in the menu opt for finer gradations. (Well, I am sure you all know this already, but a recent discovery for me – to help with a new 75mm lens acquisition, where faster shutter settings are desirable .) One does, however have to bear in mind lens coding, or rather the lack thereof. I accidentally set auto via menu rather than 100, which wound up choosing some rather bizarre iso values, presumably as (not being one to use auto in the first place) the default is 1/f. Scratched my head for a bit upon reviewing the day's shooting as to why I had a few shots with iso ranges up to 1600 with shutter speeds at 1/3000, until I realized what had happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 25, 2017 Share #911 Posted July 25, 2017 Ahh! See, that is what happens when (semi) automation creeps in. It's good stuff, but needs constant supervision. Just like thyrister automation in flash units. You must always have 'one eye up the chimney', as my grandmother used to say! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 25, 2017 Share #912 Posted July 25, 2017 Ahh! See, that is what happens when (semi) automation creeps in. It's good stuff, but needs constant supervision. Just like thyrister automation in flash units. You must always have 'one eye up the chimney', as my grandmother used to say! But it's just an easier way of getting what we want. We no longer have to count one-elephant-two elephant while we stand ready to drop the flap over our lens for exposures accurate to the nearest half second if we're lucky. Our semi-automatic cameras see to it on our behalf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted July 25, 2017 Share #913 Posted July 25, 2017 One does, however have to bear in mind lens coding, or rather the lack thereof. I accidentally set auto via menu rather than 100, which wound up choosing some rather bizarre iso values, presumably as (not being one to use auto in the first place) the default is 1/f. Scratched my head for a bit upon reviewing the day's shooting as to why I had a few shots with iso ranges up to 1600 with shutter speeds at 1/3000, until I realized what had happened. Sorry: my mistake, in my posting [909] I meant the 'M' option on the ISO wheel, not 'A'. Should have looked at the camera first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 25, 2017 Share #914 Posted July 25, 2017 Ahh! See, that is what happens... And in particular, when it creeps up on someone whose grandmother failed to advise him in a similar manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surge Posted July 30, 2017 Share #915 Posted July 30, 2017 I like EVFs. I like the Fuji X-Pro 2's viewfinder, and It gives me the option of an OVF built-in and very well implemented. But as with the Leica, I find myself only using the stronger of the options: with the Fuji I use the EVF 99% of the time, and it's the other way round with the M10. The X-Pro's optical viewfinder is nowhere near as nice as even the M240's. One look through it and it's obvious how distorted the image is, unless you look straight on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 30, 2017 Share #916 Posted July 30, 2017 The X-Pro's optical viewfinder is nowhere near as nice as even the M240's. One look through it and it's obvious how distorted the image is, unless you look straight on. I completely agree. It's still a good viewfinder though, just not up to comparison with the Leica's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladik Posted July 30, 2017 Share #917 Posted July 30, 2017 Why Leica does not make an M (or rather N so no one is up in arms) no rangefinder just EVF for us who do not want that mechanical marvel that has to be adjusted every now and then. By all means keep M for the ‘retro users’ and they beloved frame selector leaver. Side by side M as well as N. Lets call it practicality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 31, 2017 Share #918 Posted July 31, 2017 Why Leica does not make an M (or rather N so no one is up in arms) no rangefinder just EVF for us who do not want that mechanical marvel that has to be adjusted every now and then. By all means keep M for the ‘retro users’ and they beloved frame selector leaver. Side by side M as well as N. Lets call it practicality.I always hear about the need to get RF calibrated "every now and then" but I have been shooting M240 for last three years and didn't have to get it adjusted yet. On the EVF only M, I will vote for. But it won't happen since we have SL already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 31, 2017 Share #919 Posted July 31, 2017 Why Leica does not make an M (or rather N so no one is up in arms) no rangefinder just EVF for us who do not want that mechanical marvel that has to be adjusted every now and then. By all means keep M for the ‘retro users’ and they beloved frame selector leaver. Side by side M as well as N. Lets call it practicality. Dude, what are you saying?? A Leica without a rangefinder is a well-built full-frame Sony with an M mount adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted July 31, 2017 Share #920 Posted July 31, 2017 Why Leica does not make an M (or rather N so no one is up in arms) no rangefinder just EVF for us who do not want that mechanical marvel that has to be adjusted every now and then... You can have it today, it's called Leica SL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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