Tailwagger Posted July 11, 2017 Share #661 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Niche is often just a more pleasant way of saying too expensive for most mortals to consider. But the advent of the selfie age has meant that term niche applies pretty much to the entire ILC camera market. The 'pro' level 4/3ths bodies are $2k these days. Fuji base prices are up, the latest Sony is 4 grand. Glass prices are rising as well. Meanwhile the M10 came in lower than the previous generation. And then there is the M240 prices in the used market, which begins to approach that of those new 4/3s. Might not some be tempted to add a Leica, rather than upgrade their current camera? As the ILC customer base dwindles ever more to include only those that are quite serious about photography and as the prices of the more conventional options continue to rise, its quite possible that the popularity of the Leica M will actually increase. After all, from a experiential standpoint, nothing from CaNikon, Sony etal competes with it nor, in fairness, does an M compete back. And I'm not sure we should discount the path that has opened up to the M given to the substantial amount of native M glass thats spending time on Sony and Fuji cameras these days. Sure, the M, at least given the current formula, might never hope to dominate sales charts, but as the market seems destined to become more concentrated, it might do better than most might think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 Hi Tailwagger, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #662 Posted July 12, 2017 I am unsure if you meant to say people buying leica are OLD or experienced. I don't mean to put words in your mouth but Leica has a league of its own. I come from the DSLR, Sony, Olympus & Fuji (I have serious gas). When I came to Leica, I felt i reached my destination. Leica realized that not many care about the video function on the M240 and so will be the fate with the Wifi on M10. Hence they removed it. Add a Sony 6000 or RX1 for 500 bucks you have a blogging camera for Cheap. I say yes, SL has to compete with Sony A series cameras. Again, what are we competing? its very subjective. Price? Frame Rate? IQ? Lenses? Size? @Olsen - Are you saying battery life is pathetic on M10 or M240? Who is the competition here? None really. Fuji X's are not really true range finders. They are gimmick. Plus the battery on those is skinny. Sony's suck battery like a V10 burns gas. So the only ones remaining are DSLR's & Go Pros? M10 Vs M240 - Yes, the battery life is slightly less. Carry a spare one may be? When i used sony i had to carry 5 extra ones just to get through the day. in my opinion that the competition. Leica removed the video from the M10 because of heat dissipation problems in the smaller body and justified it by a marketing spin. I'm sure they did some kind of poll to check whether it would impact sales significantly, but nobody can convince me that there was a philosophical intent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 12, 2017 Share #663 Posted July 12, 2017 Gotta love all these 'M10 not for me posts', why even share this stuf... I won't be buying an M10 anytime soon... because I shoot the S system, doesn't mean everything I come here will list up why the M10 is not for me at this moment... it's tiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #664 Posted July 12, 2017 I agree with "if you don't want it don't buy it", Jip, but I am sure most posts here are made to offset the eulogies in other threads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 12, 2017 Share #665 Posted July 12, 2017 Jaap, are you implying the M10 is dead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #666 Posted July 12, 2017 Leicas never die It might enable me to pick up a cheap one, though Merriam-Webster: Definition of eulogyplural: eulogies [....] 2: high praise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 12, 2017 Share #667 Posted July 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... and pigs might fly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhicks Posted July 12, 2017 Share #668 Posted July 12, 2017 Leica removed the video from the M10 because of heat dissipation problems in the smaller body and justified it by a marketing spin. I'm sure they did some kind of poll to check whether it would impact sales significantly, but nobody can convince me that there was a philosophical intent. I just don't think that's the way product development works. If the story is true - thinness vs. video - then it's a tradeoff decision until either a) technology catches up with intent, or they see that there's a competitive advantage to not including it even in the future. It's not 'philosophy.' It's business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #669 Posted July 12, 2017 Yes- exactly what I am saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre1960 Posted July 12, 2017 Share #670 Posted July 12, 2017 What a useless discussion. Just buy what fits your needs which is different for everybody. Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted July 12, 2017 Share #671 Posted July 12, 2017 What a useless discussion. Just buy what fits your needs which is different for everybody. Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Your post IS useless. Don't waste your time reading those "useless discussions". Some (include me ) had changed their mind from "no never M10" ...to ... " M10 now I have/use one and happy, thanks" . For example, here : https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/274259-going-to-have-to-eat-my-earlier-skepticism-now/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 12, 2017 Share #672 Posted July 12, 2017 Gotta love all these 'M10 not for me posts', why even share this stuf... I won't be buying an M10 anytime soon... because I shoot the S system, doesn't mean everything I come here will list up why the M10 is not for me at this moment... it's tiring. Oh the Leica Guru has spoken... If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. is the same as If you don't like reading it then don't read it. Yet here you are complaining on a public forum that you don't like what you are reading Jog on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 12, 2017 Share #673 Posted July 12, 2017 Leica removed the video from the M10 because of heat dissipation problems in the smaller body and justified it by a marketing spin. I'm sure they did some kind of poll to check whether it would impact sales significantly, but nobody can convince me that there was a philosophical intent. Well that's what I had thought. BUT. The TL is much smaller than the M10. It has USB, 4K and HDMI. When I asked about it, Leica told me to buy the SL. Buying a whole other £4.5K body is a ridiculous solution to a problem that did not exist. Leica has been over run by monkeys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 12, 2017 Share #674 Posted July 12, 2017 Well that's what I had thought. BUT. The TL is much smaller than the M10. It has USB, 4K and HDMI. . What's outside doesn't necessarily correlate to what's packed inside. And the M10 is slimmer than this, with a bigger VF and sensor.... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/21079-anatomy-of-the-leica-m8/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 12, 2017 Share #675 Posted July 12, 2017 What's outside doesn't necessarily correlate to what's packed inside. And the M10 is slimmer than this, with a bigger VF and sensor.... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/21079-anatomy-of-the-leica-m8/ Jeff The M240 moved insides to the outside with the Multifunction Grip, it worked great and if you didn't want USB you didn't have to buy the USB grip. The M10 has the connector for it, but it's covered up. They could have a USB3 Grip for the M10 but don't. There are many full frame cameras with 4K, some are much smaller. The iPhone is 6mm thin and has 4K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #676 Posted July 12, 2017 Well that's what I had thought. BUT. The TL is much smaller than the M10. It has USB, 4K and HDMI. When I asked about it, Leica told me to buy the SL. Buying a whole other £4.5K body is a ridiculous solution to a problem that did not exist. Leica has been over run by monkeys. Yes, but it has a smaller sensor, generating less heat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #677 Posted July 12, 2017 The M240 moved insides to the outside with the Multifunction Grip, it worked great and if you didn't want USB you didn't have to buy the USB grip. The M10 has the connector for it, but it's covered up. They could have a USB3 Grip for the M10 but don't. There are many full frame cameras with 4K, some are much smaller. The iPhone is 6mm thin and has 4K. A full frame iPhone? I rather doubt that. How many of those cameras generate heat warnings like the M10 does? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 12, 2017 Share #678 Posted July 12, 2017 Great rangefinder in that iPhone, too. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 12, 2017 Share #679 Posted July 12, 2017 Yes, but it has a smaller sensor, generating less heat. Sony, Fuji? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2017 Share #680 Posted July 12, 2017 What's outside doesn't necessarily correlate to what's packed inside. And the M10 is slimmer than this, with a bigger VF and sensor.... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/21079-anatomy-of-the-leica-m8/ Jeff It is indeed a bit cramped in there: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269227-m10-sorry-no/?do=findComment&comment=3314544'>More sharing options...
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