M10 rangefinder "considerably greater accuracy"

[Rick]

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This is so frustrating Chris. (Not your fault!)

 

But despite being told how important it is to use the correct diopter I have still not seen a straight explanation as to how to determine what is the correct diopter.

 

Is it just a matter of trial and error?

 

I'm hoping Rick may reply.

 

 

We have been through this so many times.  There is a great thread(s) I spent hours relying to.  Most everyone's specific refractive error is covered in these past posts.  Also, I have answered and helped everyone that has PM'd me.  

 

Please read the past threads before you contact me.  It is more complex than just random members prescribing corrective lenses (diopters) and the proof of this is the confusion.

 

Can someone search for these past posts first.

 

Rick

[Rick]

Visit your optometrist and hold his try-out glasses in front of your ocular. the one that works best umm.. works best and should be the one to order.

 

Good advise.  Except, your Optometrist doesn't understand the Leica VF demand on your eye's accommodation.  And, uncorrected astigmatism or the wrong distance correction will cause problems with the empirical calculation of the needed diopter.  By the way, often the "wrong" distance correction is prescribed for a patient for good reasons... and this causes problems when folks use the RF.  Again, complex.  This isn't entirely about optics. 

 

Rick

[Peter H]

We have been through this so many times.  There is a great thread(s) I spent hours relying to.  Most everyone's specific refractive error is covered in these past posts.  Also, I have answered and helped everyone that has PM'd me.  

 

Please read the past threads before you contact me.  It is more complex than just random members prescribing corrective lenses (diopters) and the proof of this is the confusion.

 

Can someone search for these past posts first.

 

Rick

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't know it had been covered before. Silly of me  maybe, but there we are.

 

Is this the thread you had in mind? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109280-dioptermagnifier-together/

 

Anyway, thank you.

[adan]

 Except, your Optometrist doesn't understand the Leica VF demand on your eye's accommodation.

 

Take your M (10, 9, 240 whatever) with you.

 

Once upon a time, the major camera makers provided their dealers with diopter sampler wheels - this one from Contax/Yashica, but I know Nikon made them, and am pretty sure Leica did at some point: http://camerabooks.com/Images/Products/CS-CameraStuff/CS1284-IMG_9234.jpg

 

You mounted it on your camera eyepiece, and turned the wheel to find which correction lens worked best.

 

Presumably, despite or in addition to, their massive self-contained diagnostic machines, optometrists/opticians still have drawers full of single lenses you can hold up with thumb and forefinger to the M viewfinder, and see what they do - probably easier to find an optometrist than a well-equipped camera store, these days.

 

http://us.123rf.com/450wm/jirivondrous/jirivondrous1508/jirivondrous150800011/44286419-optician-with-set-of-trial-frames-and-trial-lenses.jpg?ver=6

 

That's it for me on this thread - can't stand trying to type "diopter, optician, optometrist" correctly any more.

[Rick]

There is a place for trial lenses.  But, it isn't that simple.  Otherwise, we would just give you that drawer full of trial lenses in the exam room and let you pick your own glasses.  

 

Rick

[Rick]

Sorry, I didn't know it had been covered before. Silly of me  maybe, but there we are.

 

Is this the thread you had in mind? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109280-dioptermagnifier-together/

 

Anyway, thank you.

 

Yes.  There is a newer one that is good as well.

 

Rick

[Jeff S]

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Sorry, I didn't know it had been covered before. Silly of me  maybe, but there we are.

 

Is this the thread you had in mind? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109280-dioptermagnifier-together/

 

Anyway, thank you.

 

Rick helped me and others in this more recent thread...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258125-leica-dioptre/page-1  

 

Rick knows eyes.  (But is still learning about basics like making sure he has the latest Adobe LR profile for his M10 before criticizing its color rendering.   )

 

And don't ask him about politics.  

 

Jeff

[Rick]

Thanks Jeff... I think.    

[Rick]

By the way Peter, you don't need to remind me you are silly.

 

Rick

[jaapv]

Take your M (10, 9, 240 whatever) with you.

 

Once upon a time, the major camera makers provided their dealers with diopter sampler wheels - this one from Contax/Yashica, but I know Nikon made them, and am pretty sure Leica did at some point: http://camerabooks.com/Images/Products/CS-CameraStuff/CS1284-IMG_9234.jpg

 

You mounted it on your camera eyepiece, and turned the wheel to find which correction lens worked best.

 

 

Yes, they did; I have one, I'll dig it up and post.

[Guest]

Yes, they did; I have one, I'll dig it up and post.

 

Never heard of this sounds interesting though, thank you for posting it.

[Rick]

Please read through these links first and be prepared to be confused.  Read all the way through.  Then ask questions. 

 

http://www.l-camera-...ifier-together/

 

http://www.l-camera-...-dioptre/page-1

 

 

Rick

[adan]

There is a place for trial lenses.  But, it isn't that simple.  Otherwise, we would just give you that drawer full of trial lenses in the exam room and let you pick your own glasses.  

 

Rick

 

Well, on that other diopter thread you did say:

 

"But, very often glasses are slightly over-corrected for myopia and this would cause the need for a slightly stronger diopter, say a +1.00.  This is why the suggestion by japan [edit: or adan] to go to the optician and ask to try a couple lenses around these powers while you look through the viewfinder at near and far.  It should become very clear (get it) which is best."

 

...which is more or less what I meant, also. But we understand that diopters alone do not an optical prescription make (astigmatism and other factors).

 

However, Leica's eyepiece diopters don't offer additional corrections either.

 

So I hope we are all talking about looking through a Leica viewfinder with whatever other vision corrections we already use (glasses, contacts) in place. And finding an additional small tweaking diopterage to make the RF patch (at whatever virtual distance it appears) as sharp as possible under those conditions. For me, right now, that is a +0.5 Leica add-on - almost (it is better than no eyepiece diopter, but still very slightly fuzzy).

 

It would nice to know if a +0.25 or +0.75 (not available anyway, from Leica) or +1.00 would be, in the clinical phrasing "Better? or Worse? Better? or Worse?"

[jaapv]

Never heard of this sounds interesting though, thank you for posting it.

Voilà:

 

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(I see my M3 is rather dusty... )

 

Edit:

 

More clear on a chrome camera:

 

 

 

 

[pico]

As one who has profound astigmatism and tri-focal lenses and have never been able to see full frame with a Leica .72 finder with 35mm lenses, I dearly hope the M10 will solve the problem. I do not like spending so much money just to find if the new viewfinder solves the issue, but I will buy one, and express my opinion with the caveat that maybe, just maybe my case is the exception. Dunno. Maybe Rick can inform us.

 

FWIW, the Sixties Canon RF had a switch over the viewfinder that made it work for me. Look it up.

 

Being an olde pharte of 70+ years I understand I am not within the market of Leica's RF market and I am at peace with that possible reality.

.

[adan]

Pico, I'm not sure if this is what you mean (probably not) - but the "Barnack" screw-mount Leicas, and Canon copies, had a lever below the rewind knob (right) that - I believe - adjusted the viewfinder focus (diopter setting of the eyepiece).

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4oKMni3rpF4/UH7Yq3nAvyI/AAAAAAAADE0/yMWIxW98ssw/s1600/CanonLeica-2.jpg

 

Even the most basic DSLRs and EVFs today have adjustable diopter controls at the eyepiece (as does the SL, I suspect). One might argue that the "rewind knob" on the M10 might have better served for adjusting the eyepiece optics, rather than ISO (screams from the audience ). A throwback, and tip of the hat, to the Barnack cameras.

 

However - I acknowledge that the M viewfinder as built for 63 years, and currently, would make that - difficult. The main viewfinder is virtually a solid block of glass, from eyepiece to front window, as diagrammed in the link below, with very little space left over for adding a couple of pieces of glass that can move around significantly and change the eyepiece focus. At least not without adding a largish tube onto the back (See the SL, but anathema for the M, especially when users already complain about every last mm of body size).

 

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/57197252/ed225b2a1ea24a4e89dfd3d06d46ea4b

 

So it would be a challenge to Leica's engineers. A Last Frontier in bringing the classic M finder into the 21st century.

[UliWer]

With the little lever known from the later screwmount bodies you could adjust the focal distance of the telescopic viewfinder. This could help to some limited degree to correct some eye weaknesses. It could not adjust the field of view you get from the viewfinder. I also suspect that adding a system of adjustable lenses to the viewfinder would make it less bright. So the relieve for some would add problems for others.

[jaapv]

AFAIK it was not meant as an eye correction, but as a focusing mechanism for the RF telescope, reason why it was marked with an arrow and infinity symbol.

[david strachan]

Dioptre correction would be a huge leap forward into the 21^st Century.

 

I'll be leaving Leica in the next few years, most of all because I have some problems with focusing.

 

I really think Leica is "dragging the chain" here.

 

...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

I'm sure it is not as simple as it appears. Leica is not adverse to dioptre correcting viewfinders, as they have been offering it for many if not all their other cameras.

Maybe a question for some future Leica interview.