CJJon Posted May 27, 2017 Share #141 Posted May 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) FYI I used Win 10 to reformat (exFAT) my Kingston 128gb SDXC Class 10 and took the battery out of the camera for more than an hour. Now the card seems to be working. I don't trust it, but it seems to be OK after 100 shots or so. NB: I also rubbed my head and patted my tummy for the entire time the card was reformatting. Update: Now the card is non-operational after a few hundred shots. SD card read error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 27, 2017 Posted May 27, 2017 Hi CJJon, Take a look here SD Card compatibility issue?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
CJJon Posted May 27, 2017 Share #142 Posted May 27, 2017 Same experience here with these SD Pro 32GB 95mb/s. Problems appeared after 2 weeks of use. I never erase images in camera. There where new cards only used in my M10. I formated the cards in camera before using them. I always formate the cards in camera after downloading the images to the computer. Please Leica, give us a list of usable cards. I think the problem is not card specific, but a camera issue. I now have a $7000 camera I can't rely on. Took my Nikon D7200 to the museum yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted May 27, 2017 Share #143 Posted May 27, 2017 Has anyone an idea how it is possible a card works for days or weeks and than stops working? Is it possible the camera or the firmware deteriorates the card? In this case the card should not work on different cameras...I think, I am not an expert in this area, just curious and trying to understand. robert PS: as owner of the M10 of course this is worrying at least... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted May 27, 2017 Share #144 Posted May 27, 2017 For me it remains a mystery... and certainly not a Mystery Joyful... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 27, 2017 Share #145 Posted May 27, 2017 Has anyone an idea how it is possible a card works for days or weeks and than stops working? Is it possible the camera or the firmware deteriorates the card? In this case the card should not work on different cameras...I think, I am not an expert in this area, just curious and trying to understand. robert PS: as owner of the M10 of course this is worrying at least... There are reports that that 16 GB cards are (mainly?) not affected. As 32 GB is the tipping point between FAT32 and exFAT formats, there may be a cause there. Has anybody tried formatting a misbehaving 32 GB card to exFAT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 27, 2017 Share #146 Posted May 27, 2017 Has anyone an idea how it is possible a card works for days or weeks and than stops working? Given that the problems reported occur after making a couple hundred photographs, then perhaps the battery has run down below a critical level. When these problems happen, what was the battery condition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted May 27, 2017 Share #147 Posted May 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) exFat did not improve the situation with my card. Problem reoccurred after use of LV. My card is Toshiba exceria pro 32GB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted May 27, 2017 Share #148 Posted May 27, 2017 There are reports that that 16 GB cards are (mainly?) not affected. As 32 GB is the tipping point between FAT32 and exFAT formats, there may be a cause there. Has anybody tried formatting a misbehaving 32 GB card to exFAT? I formatted to esFat 2 misbehaving SD Pro 32 GB 95mb&s and nothing changed. Thanks for the tip though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted May 28, 2017 Share #149 Posted May 28, 2017 There are reports that that 16 GB cards are (mainly?) not affected. As 32 GB is the tipping point between FAT32 and exFAT formats, there may be a cause there. Has anybody tried formatting a misbehaving 32 GB card to exFAT? Misbehaving SD card? This is all just chasing tails. Reports are too varied for it to be an issue of card brand, GB size, or format specifics. It's the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 28, 2017 Share #150 Posted May 28, 2017 Not that clear-cut if it is not all cameras, nor all cards. It is hard to pin down a culprit in such a problem. However, it is not likely that the SD card manufacturers are going to tighten down their production process, so Leica must look into making their camera more tolerant of product variation. For the time being I would opt for 8 and 16 GB cards. More stable and secure, and it is hard to make a case for a larger card in a camera without video anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted May 28, 2017 Share #151 Posted May 28, 2017 Not that clear-cut if it is not all cameras, nor all cards. It is hard to pin down a culprit in such a problem. However, it is not likely that the SD card manufacturers are going to tighten down their production process, so Leica must look into making their camera more tolerant of product variation. For the time being I would opt for 8 and 16 GB cards. More stable and secure, and it is hard to make a case for a larger card in a camera without video anyway. So now I have to plead my case as to the reasons why I want my $7000 camera to work with modern SD cards? Wow. You're just making excuses. Stop blaming the card manufacturers. It's the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Greenwell Posted May 28, 2017 Share #152 Posted May 28, 2017 My M10 would not work with a Sandisk 64 gb, it was fine with a Sandisk 16gb but very slow waking up. I bought a new Sandisk 32 gb and so far okay including live view and a bit faster waking up. The camera was also delivered with a lot of dirt on the sensor, I am not impressed. I spoke to a UK dealer yesterday and they said that they had not heard of any problems with the SD cards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted May 28, 2017 Share #153 Posted May 28, 2017 I spoke to a UK dealer yesterday and they said that they had not heard of any problems with the SD cards. Such a well informed dealer!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted May 28, 2017 Share #154 Posted May 28, 2017 http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/how-to/a9861/why-cameras-wont-read-some-memory-cards-16326614/ "in order to be fully compliant with the SDXC card specification many SDXC-capable host devices are firmware-programmed to expect exFAT on cards larger than 32 GB, and consequently may not accept SDXC cards reformatted as FAT32, even if the device supports FAT32 on smaller cards (for SDHC compatibility). Therefore, even if a file system is supported in general, it is not always possible to use alternative file systems on SDXC cards at all depending on how strictly the SDXC card specification has been implemented in the device, and it bears a risk of accidental loss of data, as a host device may treat a card with an unrecognized file system as blank or damaged and reformat the card. The SD Association provides a formatting utility for Windows and Mac OS X that checks and formats SD, SDHC, and SDXC cards." Misbehaving SD card? This is all just chasing tails. Reports are too varied for it to be an issue of card brand, GB size, or format specifics. It's the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted May 28, 2017 Share #155 Posted May 28, 2017 The problem on the M10 arises with SDHC cards and SDXC cards alike, even when formatted in camera. Cards that are officially endorsed by Leica are not immune to the problem. I am being affected even wih a card from the Leica factory store in Wetzlar! Most of the time, the corruption rate is about one in ten or one in twenty of images with spurious clustering. But when you lose a 'moment decisif' it is frustrating . Currently I use legacy cards with 4 or 8 GB and outrageous data throughput (15 or 20 MB/s) with which the camera seems to perform reliably (headscratch). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 28, 2017 Share #156 Posted May 28, 2017 [...] it is not likely that the SD card manufacturers are going to tighten down their production process, so Leica must look into making their camera more tolerant of product variation. This is a difficult problem. SD card host controllers (lives on the card) provide a hardware abstraction layer that must be tailored to the manufacturer's fundamental storage design which varies too much for my taste. So, it is really up to the manufacturer to provide compliant and competent firmware. Will they? Can they? To repeat an earlier post, in my modest experience, battery failure during a write is often the cause of corrupting an SD card, and corruption seems to be the common complaint in this thread. If the card cannot be re-formatted, especially in SD Formatter, it is corrupt. Finis. Kaput. Ne marche pas! Battery failure can mean the OS firmware has set a low threshold, or suffers an intermittent failure. (In later M9 firmware there's even a parameter to set the tolerance, albeit dramatically to pass or fail. Default is 'intelligent'. aside factoid: SD cards' theoretical storage limit is 2 petabytes. Two million gigabytes! My former workplace, a research library, would fit on one. Then the battery would fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 28, 2017 Share #157 Posted May 28, 2017 So now I have to plead my case as to the reasons why I want my $7000 camera to work with modern SD cards? Wow. You're just making excuses. Stop blaming the card manufacturers. It's the camera. Excuses? I suggest you actually read my post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted May 28, 2017 Share #158 Posted May 28, 2017 My M10's write failures seem to be entirely independent of camera battery status. I remember similiar problems in the beginning of M9 days but they disappeared due to firmware update and/or my using only small capacity SD's, which I prefer in the first place (not all eggs in one basket). But, come on Leica, handling a current model of a 16 MB card in 2017 should not be rocket science... Although, in general, enjoying all of my M's, it seems fair to point out that I have not had a similiar problem with any other brand of digital camera that I have ever possessed, including very heavily used workhorse DSLRs. The camera has been on the market for nearly half a year now. Expecting and demanding a solution is very understandable imho. The M10 is, in principle, a much too fine instrument for sitting in the shelf due to inacceptable reliability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 28, 2017 Share #159 Posted May 28, 2017 A question to Shadow and Light: When a card fails in your M10, can you use it one of your other cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted May 28, 2017 Share #160 Posted May 28, 2017 I have not tested this yet with another M because using a card from a different camera may mess up the frame counter/ image numbering (the camera always continues onward from the highest frame count encountered on a card) and I do not want to reset my in camera file naming. The cards that the M10 has problems with work flawlessly in non-Leica gear. The file system on the cards in general is still usable, as I can access the cards through an SD reader on mac, win and linux machines and I can see the directory/file structure and open the unaffected images. It is only some image files themselves that are corrupted (they are being recognized as image files but are designated as 'unreadable' or 'corrupted' by any imaging software on any operating system that I have tried. These images are also not viewable 'in camera'. A black image with the caption "DNG?" is displayed instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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