First impressions - M10

[otto.f]

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Are you using the LEICAM10 or Adobe profile in LR 6.8?

First see above: my two 75lux shots of a tea-moment. The second is from LR6.8 with Adobe Standard, which I think contains too much Magenta. The first is as said from C1, which is quite similar to the LR6.8 version with profile Leica M10 (not shown here, if you insist I can post it) and which I actually prefer: although it is a bit oversaturated, the colors aren't really off

[otto.f]

Otto - this is interesting.  I deliberately haven't adjusted WB in any of these as I wanted to give AWB a good run.  That's also why I've shot with the horrid kinds of mixed lighting that you get in galleries, shops etc.

 

QUESTION - which version of Lightroom are you using?  I'm on 6.8 and for skin tones it makes a huge difference.  

Also - can you say which image you think are yellower than you'd like?  I'll be interested to check these.

 

Best

Not yellower than I like but than I presume to be realistic:

(L100)1642

1645

1659

1671

2794 (greenish)

 

NB: your normal-daylight images of London are very realistic as far as I know London and remind me of Kodachrome25 minus 1/3, so: lovely! And perhaps better than what M9 normally does, fuller, richer (I mean ... how do you describe wine?)

[Rick]

I seem to be moving Saturation up as much as +15.  Under certain artificial light I move Tint down as much as 3.  Of course, Lr 6.8 Adobe Standard.

 

This makes the M10 a little more M9-like.  

 

Rick 

[johnbuckley]

John - full agreement.  What will you do with your SL?  If you've not got the AF glass, I'm not sure where it fits in now...

UPDATE - just realised I'd not made the London shots public in Flickr.  They're now available at:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskRpb4mJ

 

Best

Chris - I'm keeping my SL, and have no less enthusiasm for it. I think my photographic life splits as follows:

 

SL for still lifes (with the SL 50, Nocti), landscapes, wildlife, certain kinds of events.

 

M for street/city life.

 

I spend a lot more time in cities, and on short trips, than in landscape/wildlife long-trip situations. Put different, the M is kept close at hand, the SL is a specialty tool. I love both, but I'll use the M much more because it is more my everyday, default camera.

[Cliff S]

Well said. Same here

[chris_tribble]

Chris - I'm keeping my SL, and have no less enthusiasm for it. I think my photographic life splits as follows:

SL for still lifes (with the SL 50, Nocti), landscapes, wildlife, certain kinds of events.

M for street/city life.

John, thanks for this. I note that you're using an SL lens as a key party of your SL body use strategy. This makes sense (IS, AT, weatherproof etc.). As I have no SL lenses, the camera makes less sense for me. Two M10s + the Canon 5D3 with L glass work for me (maybe the 4 later, though I'm not convinced by the mega pixel argument as yet).

All sensible approaches where we're balancing needs, funds and desires

Very best

[johnbuckley]

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Thanks, Chris, and it should be said: I really welcomed the M-240, live view, and the ability to use R lenses. For the first time, I could shoot long lenses and capture wildlife. But going to Botswana with me shooting my Ms and my teenage son shooting his Canon, I vowed that if I ever got the chance to return, I'd bring an S or a Canon/Nikon, because manual focusing, etc. seems cumbersome. My son got some amazing images I couldn't.*

 

The SL was a dream come true for certain needs. And yes, I've been able to invest in the two zooms and now the 50. (I can't imagine needing any more SL glass.)

 

But the M is my first love. The limitations of the Leica Ms are a key reason why shooting them is so special, and rewarding. But in some instances, the limitations are, well, limitations, and it's nice to have an alternative!

 

*Perhaps it also should be said, all my most memorable images from that trip were shot with the M9 Monochrom, the 90 Summicron, and a variable ND filter...

[Tobers]

I'm getting to know my M10 on day 2 of ownership. Some first impressions after wandering about and taking some not-very-inspirational pictures:

 

1. It does appear easier to focus. It's not massively obvious, but the results with my 90/2 APO are much more consistent than with my M240. The rangefinder "seems" more precise somehow. That little nudge from just-out-of-focus to spot-on is more visible.
2. Oddly I think the camera looks smaller due to being just a bit thinner. I know there's not much in it, but it seems to make it look smaller overall which must be just psychological.
3. I love being able to look at the top of the camera and check ISO. However, it is actually easier to adjust the ISO on the M240 - hold the ISO button while twiddling the dial. The process on the M10 is a bit clunkier unless you've left the ISO dial unlocked. However I found it easily gets pushed down to the locked position accidentally. Anyhow, I like it as I can see all my settings at a glance which is a good thing.
4. Colours appear to be absolutely spot on (LR 6.8 and Adobe Standard profile being used).
5. I wear glasses and can see the 28mm framelines no problem. Shooting my 24 Lux I can see around the 28mm framelines sufficiently to estimate composition quite nicely. I do have to "look around" the viewfinder to do so, but no real problems with that. Nice.

Strangely I'm not hugely excited about my new M10. It's so similar in look and feel to the M240 it doesn't feel like a brand new amazing thing. I'm just quietly very happy and content :-).

 

Lastly, I got one of those A&A slider straps. Very nice indeed. Should have got one ages ago.

[Rick]

Tobers,  I agree with all of that.  

 

And, it is odd that I was not as excited as I was the M9 or M240 either.  I thought the M9 was a nice low ISO camera and it was full frame.  The M240 added so much, it was exciting to explore all of the features like live view, the OVF, and video.  It is still a nice camera, as well.

 

The M10 is less.  That is how I ended my first impressions.  Every bit of the M10 is done so well including high ISO.  They did what I have asked for several times here on the forum.  "Make the new M better, not more."  They did that.  Leica nailed it this time with the M10.  

 

For me too, having a camera that is sublime is oddly unexciting.  

 

Rick  

[otto.f]

I agree a little bit with Tobers and Rick about the moderate enthusiasm. I come from an M9 so the extra options of the M240 were not yet in my reach and now they are.

The silent shutter, the ISO button, the Wifi, the richness of colors as well as the realism of them, make me very enthusiastic. But/and I feel that the love will steadily grow more and more once I get more acquainted with the practicalities and its behavior image-wise.

In the meantime I studied my MM1 results and came to the conclusion that I will not sell it at all, because its sharpness and tonal scale are still way above the M10, which for B&W a very good thing because I think that B&W benefits by utmost sharpness, more so than color.

[Neko]

I agree a little bit with Tobers and Rick about the moderate enthusiasm. I come from an M9 so the extra options of the M240 were not yet in my reach and now they are.

The silent shutter, the ISO button, the Wifi, the richness of colors as well as the realism of them, make me very enthusiastic. But/and I feel that the love will steadily grow more and more once I get more acquainted with the practicalities and its behavior image-wise.

In the meantime I studied my MM1 results and came to the conclusion that I will not sell it at all, because its sharpness and tonal scale are still way above the M10, which for B&W a very good thing because I think that B&W benefits by utmost sharpness, more so than color

 

I totally agree. I like the M10 a lot. The IQ with the 50 APO is nothing but astounding.  Nevertheless the B&W files of the MM1 remain untouchable.

[grillo]

I went into the store hoping to upgrade from the M240. I am a 35mm shooter with glasses and spent quite a bit of time examining the viewfinder side by side with my camera. The higher magnification makes it easier to focus, but in the end I see the exact same field of view with glasses and the 35mm framelines, just barely seeing the edges. I was hoping to be able to see more around the edges. And unfortunately, the higher magnification means that the eye has to move more to see from one side of the image to the other and I found this a bit uncomfortable. Maybe my eye-brain is accustomed to the M240 viewfinder, and with time it will get used to the new one, but the first impression was a bit unpleasant. For a 50 mm photographer it must be a huge improvement, but for my own use it's debatable.

 

Other than the viewfinder I liked the handling, and I can't really say how or why, but side by side the screen seemed much better, even with the plastic protective cover over it. The sound is very different, and I think I prefer the lower pitch of the M240. I loved the ISO dial, something I've wanted since the M8. Unfortunately the upgrade price was too high.

[david strachan]

I went into the store hoping to upgrade from the M240. I am a 35mm shooter with glasses and spent quite a bit of time examining the viewfinder side by side with my camera. The higher magnification makes it easier to focus, but in the end I see the exact same field of view with glasses and the 35mm framelines, just barely seeing the edges. I was hoping to be able to see more around the edges. And unfortunately, the higher magnification means that the eye has to move more to see from one side of the image to the other and I found this a bit uncomfortable. Maybe my eye-brain is accustomed to the M240 viewfinder, and with time it will get used to the new one, but the first impression was a bit unpleasant. For a 50 mm photographer it must be a huge improvement, but for my own use it's debatable.

 

Other than the viewfinder I liked the handling, and I can't really say how or why, but side by side the screen seemed much better, even with the plastic protective cover over it. The sound is very different, and I think I prefer the lower pitch of the M240. I loved the ISO dial, something I've wanted since the M8. Unfortunately the upgrade price was too high.

Good post grillo, thanks very much.

Someone with glasses trying to see the 35mm frame-lines...still not easy with the new M10...same as the M240.

A good post, something to hang one's hat on.

 

all best..

[microview]

… it is actually easier to adjust the ISO on the M240 - hold the ISO button while twiddling the dial. The process on the M10 is a bit clunkier unless you've left the ISO dial unlocked. 

 

Yes the old system was fine, hardly time-consuming. So the new control is little more than a daft 'homage' to the old film winder.

[coup de foudre]

Yes the old system was fine, hardly time-consuming. So the new control is little more than a daft 'homage' to the old film winder.

 

Disagree. The ISO dial is perfect for those of us that do not have the EVF, nor want to go into the menu.

 

We obviously have different ways of shooting, but having everything on the top plate is so welcome in tough candid shooting conditions. Whilst I love the new Auto-ISO, I see myself shooting fully manual much more often. I am excited!

[Neko]

Disagree. The ISO dial is perfect for those of us that do not have the EVF, nor want to go into the menu.

 

We obviously have different ways of shooting, but having everything on the top plate is so welcome in tough candid shooting conditions. Whilst I love the new Auto-ISO, I see myself shooting fully manual much more often. I am excited!

 I agree to disagree. I find the ISO dial very handy. When I shoot I leave it unlocked and I never changed the ISO accidentally so far. I´m not an auto ISO shooter.

[otto.f]

Disagree. The ISO dial is perfect for those of us that do not have the EVF, nor want to go into the menu.

 

We obviously have different ways of shooting, but having everything on the top plate is so welcome in tough candid shooting conditions. Whilst I love the new Auto-ISO, I see myself shooting fully manual much more often. I am excited!

 

 

 I agree to disagree. I find the ISO dial very handy. When I shoot I leave it unlocked and I never changed the ISO accidentally so far. I´m not an auto ISO shooter.

 

 

I agree with the above disagrees. On your way through streets and interiors you can leave the button up and change it fast and handy with one finger. The up-position is not that soft that it goes down easily, just in your bag it can occur, but there you would want to close it anyway.

I have discovered however that the A position is quite intelligent (seems more so than in the M9); it seems to always seek the lowest possible ISO, if, that is, you have set the lowest shutter speed right

[colonel]

I have discovered however that the A position is quite intelligent (seems more so than in the M9); it seems to always seek the lowest possible ISO, if, that is, you have set the lowest shutter speed right

 

That's the problem I have never understood with auto ISO

 

I have two requirements from auto-ISO:

1. quality = keep the lowest ISO - go down to 1/30 - assume non-moving target

2. sharpness = Keep the speed minimum to 1/125

 

No system allows you to flick between these states. They are mutually exclusive and no system I have found makes it easy to alter minimum speed without many menu clicks if they even allow you to do it at all ..

[coup de foudre]

That's the problem I have never understood with auto ISO

 

I have two requirements from auto-ISO:

1. quality = keep the lowest ISO - go down to 1/30 - assume non-moving target

2. sharpness = Keep the speed minimum to 1/125

 

No system allows you to flick between these states. They are mutually exclusive and no system I have found makes it easy to alter minimum speed without many menu clicks if they even allow you to do it at all ..

 

Yes you can. Set up Auto-ISO to 1/30 and whatever cap you want. You can override this by setting the shutter speed to 1/125 on the top plate.

 

The only time it has caught me out was when I was trying to be stylish (read: boring subject matter that I was trying to make artsy) and went wide open from f/8 in sunny conditions a blew it out.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

indeed