hteasley Posted January 23, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Handled an M10 at the Leica Store in Bellevue, WA, and it's great in every way except that ISO dial. It looks nice, but from the feel of it, there will be no adjusting it blindly. It wouldn't push up with just a finger on the outside pushing it up, it would only go up by pulling on it with two fingers gripping it. With half of it recessed, gripping it and pulling it up is tricky. I would have preferred it to not be locked like it is: just give it strongish detents to keep it from rotating freely, and it'd be great. My 240, I can adjust with it to my eye: third button up, spin the thumbwheel. Functionally, it works better. Still, I wants it, my precioussss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Hi hteasley, Take a look here Bad M10 ISO dial is bad. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digitalfx Posted January 23, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2017 I find it to be perfectly executed.If you want to adjust ISO while shooting simply pull it up and leave it up. Then adjusting ISO is simple and the knob is stiff enough that it won't accidentally rotate.If you are using auto ISO or don't plan on making changes, then leave it in the down position and it remains locked on the setting you choose.Id suggest you spend a bit more time with the camera before rushing to judgement. My initial reaction was similar...but after a few days with the camera I find it to be one of my favorite new features.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 23, 2017 Share #3 Posted January 23, 2017 Leave it on A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 23, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2017 Leave it on A In that case it is just an ornament. I am fine with such a dial as i know that many users will appreciate it. However, I don't think it should be there. ISO value is not an exposure parameter like aperture and shutter speed, as it does not control the amount of light reaching the sensor. It controls the way the sensor handles the light. It is a secondary control which should not have the same prominence as the primary ones. Maybe that is the reason why Leica made it lock-down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 23, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 23, 2017 In that case it is just an ornament. True - for most cases. Though you might restrict Auto-Iso to say 1600 and in cases you definitely want more you manually go for the bigger value on the wheel. (Now one might ask what's the use for the numbers below 1600 on the wheel?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2017 Share #6 Posted January 23, 2017 Handled an M10 at the Leica Store in Bellevue, WA, and it's great in every way except that ISO dial. It looks nice, but from the feel of it, there will be no adjusting it blindly. It wouldn't push up with just a finger on the outside pushing it up, it would only go up by pulling on it with two fingers gripping it. With half of it recessed, gripping it and pulling it up is tricky. I would have preferred it to not be locked like it is: just give it strongish detents to keep it from rotating freely, and it'd be great. My 240, I can adjust with it to my eye: third button up, spin the thumbwheel. Functionally, it works better. Still, I wants it, my precioussss. irgend etwas muß ja schlecht geredet werden ! oder, fehlt es an der feinmotorik? ich finde die lösung perfekt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotomas Posted January 23, 2017 Share #7 Posted January 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Found the solution on the M 240 perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 23, 2017 Share #8 Posted January 23, 2017 If the ISO dial is the only 'problem' you guys have with the M10, it must be a terrific camera. BTW, the 'M' position on the dial can be set to any desired ISO value, thus providing quick access to a personal ISO preference, and the 'A' position may be limited to any desired maximum ISO value. That's good enough for me. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 23, 2017 Share #9 Posted January 23, 2017 I also would have preferred it to just turn without the need to pull it up. No big deal and not a deal breaker but I think it wasn't the best design decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 23, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 23, 2017 Having a dial is not just so you can change it easily (sure, some may prefer the old way). It is also so you can see what is set, while shooting and while the camera is off or asleep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 23, 2017 Share #11 Posted January 23, 2017 I for one haven’t been clamouring for a dedicated ISO dial, but now that it’s there I can live with it. Yes, you need two fingers to unlock it; that’s because it was deliberately designed that way. But then there is no particular reason to lock it every time you make a change; changing the setting takes effect immediately. You might only lock the dial when you put the camera in the bag, say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollisd Posted January 23, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 23, 2017 Sit, Ubu, sit! ... Good dog! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 23, 2017 Share #13 Posted January 23, 2017 I for one haven’t been clamouring for a dedicated ISO dial, but now that it’s there I can live with it. Yes, you need two fingers to unlock it; that’s because it was deliberately designed that way. But then there is no particular reason to lock it every time you make a change; changing the setting takes effect immediately. You might only lock the dial when you put the camera in the bag, say. When I tried the M10 at the local store, I didn't find leaving the dial in the unlocked position to be a good idea. Especially when shooting vertically the knob was very uncomfortable, and quite an annoyance when shooting horizontally. I like the idea of an external ISO dial but this one is made unnecessarily a pita to manipulate, not unlike the front button on the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frase Posted January 23, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 23, 2017 Its probably similar to Nikon Df iso dial, until I started using it thought it was a bit stupid sitting on the top but actually is really good just to be able to look and instantly see what iso you are on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 23, 2017 Share #15 Posted January 23, 2017 It takes a split second to change. And keeping it locked is wise. Yes, you have to look at it to get the right setting. But it is, to me, faster and easier than going into a menu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolaz Posted January 23, 2017 Share #16 Posted January 23, 2017 I agree, bad design. They could have done the same as the Hasselblad X1D: push (a bit harder than normal) release, adjust and push again. Also, it looks like the grip on the knob doesn't go all they way down to the bottom. I'm not a fan of it (and the place were they put it, It doesn't feel right). And as OT I don't like the double line "Leica camera wetzlar...." I wish they made it with my list of wishes in mind but it is what it is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 23, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 23, 2017 It takes a split second to change. And keeping it locked is wise. Yes, you have to look at it to get the right setting. But it is, to me, faster and easier than going into a menu. But you don't 'go into the menu' on the M240P... you just press the ISO dial with your thumb on your left hand and rotate the thumbwheel with your right... It so happens the ISO settings on the menu display instantly when you do this, so you can see which ISO you have set... so whole process couldn't be easier. Certainly faster than pulling up a locked wheel (and you have to go into the menu anyway if you want to go to all the ISO settings...). I think its just another 'analogue' way of doing things... which is fine for the customer base that seems to like these things and it is very reminiscent of the film rewind wheel... The M10 is clearly the camera for those who want an old fashioned film camera that just happens to be digital... Given there is wifi and therefore no reason why all the menu functionality couldn't have been displayed on a phone app, I'm not sure why they didn't simply make an M-D version, complete with Leica script on the top plate from the start....yet, how long ago did the M-D come out...? I think that is a little cynical... people would have been buying the M-D while the M10 was out on test... and they had to know that those two camera would appeal to very much the same people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott.ball Posted January 23, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 23, 2017 In that case it is just an ornament. I am fine with such a dial as i know that many users will appreciate it. However, I don't think it should be there. ISO value is not an exposure parameter like aperture and shutter speed, as it does not control the amount of light reaching the sensor. It controls the way the sensor handles the light. It is a secondary control which should not have the same prominence as the primary ones. Maybe that is the reason why Leica made it lock-down. I disagree with this statement. In digital terms, ISO is every bit important as shutter speed and aperture. It deserves its own knob and it's not like it replaced anything, it doesn't take away from the aesthetics either, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 23, 2017 Share #19 Posted January 23, 2017 I think that is a little cynical... people would have been buying the M-D while the M10 was out on test... and they had to know that those two camera would appeal to very much the same people. Yes, I agree – I've been thinking the same. In the spring or early summer of 2015 I was chatting to an employee of Leica Mayfair (not Jimmy) about the digital M camera and the future of it. I was told that the company were "going back to basics" for the next digital camera and it would be "simpler" and "thinner" than the M240 which is a camera that I had been saying didn't appeal to me so much. At the time I thought it was interesting to hear this information but felt that the employee was probably mistaken about the thickness thing (it supposedly being impossible to have a thinner M). When the M-D was announced some time later I assumed that this was the camera that was being referred to in the conversation. I guess the internal 'rumours' being discussed were actually about the development of the M10 and not the M-D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 23, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 23, 2017 I would suggest you reserve judgement until you actually have the camera...not a few minutes in the Leica store. My first reaction prior to receiving the camera was that it was a unnecessary function, and it was a complete waste of space. After owning the camera Ive changed my mine completely and find it very useful. I also find the implementation well executed. In the up position it only extends about a 1/4"...hardly enough to get in the way. I have never been bothered by the knob left in the up position, actually the opposite...I am reminded that I must consider ISO as I shoot. The two positions are actually logical. Down if you are in the same lighting conditions for an extended period- for example set to ISO 200 and lock it down. Up if you are working in changing conditions and must adjust as you shoot. In that case it is just an ornament. However, I don't think it should be there. ISO value is not an exposure parameter like aperture and shutter speed, as it does not control the amount of light reaching the sensor. It controls the way the sensor handles the light. It is a secondary control which should not have the same prominence as the primary ones. Maybe that is the reason why Leica made it lock-down. While ISO isn't a primary exposure parameter like aperture and shutter speed, it is still a critical setting that must me adjusted regularly while you shoot. I find the knob reminds me of this and gives me quick access to the function. When it was relegated to the menu, I tended to forget about it when first picking up the camera and occasionally shot images at the wrong ISO value. With the knob I now consider this function first, before even turning on the camera. Try it for a week...you may actually change your mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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