wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Unless my maths is off, the pricing of the M10 in the UK at £5,600 (£4,667 without VAT) puts it at quite a discount to the US list price ($6595 at B&H). The best part of a thousand dollars difference at current exchange rates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi wattsy, Take a look here M10 price. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2017 It probably depends on the date that Leica hedged their currency rates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted January 19, 2017 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2017 Also quoted yen price converts to well over £6.5k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted January 19, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 19, 2017 The Euro and Pound VAT inclusive prices almost match as of today, but the Pound is a bit unstable just now. The problem with the US is that it allows pricing to be stated in a tax exclusive manner which would be illegal in most European countries. On the other hand most Americans I have mentioned this to, actually like the tax exclusive system. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted January 19, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 19, 2017 £5600 at today's exchange rate is $6900. Does the US price shown at B&H include tax? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted January 19, 2017 It probably depends on the date that Leica hedged their currency rates. I guess it is based on the sterling/euro rate (which has the prices quite close) but that doesn't change the fact that US buyers might consider buying from Europe. A thousand bucks is not to be sneezed at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) £5600 at today's exchange rate is $6900. Does the US price shown at B&H include tax? No. The tax exclusive prices are £4667 (UK) and $6595 (USA) and €5462 (DE). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 19, 2017 Share #8 Posted January 19, 2017 Sales tax in. The US is not national, but by each state. It ranges from zero to over ten percent. So the US price should be stated as before tax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted January 19, 2017 Share #9 Posted January 19, 2017 The Euro and Pound VAT inclusive prices almost match as of today, but the Pound is a bit unstable just now. The problem with the US is that it allows pricing to be stated in a tax exclusive manner which would be illegal in most European countries. On the other hand most Americans I have mentioned this to, actually like the tax exclusive system. William MY wife loves it when we visit Europe, she much prefers paying the price displayed rather than have to figure in tax. Looking at that price I would be seriously tempted to buy in the UK when I next visit if I was looking for a digital M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted January 19, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 19, 2017 US prices are listed w/o tax, Europe (UK included) inclusive of VAT -- state vs national system as stated above. In fact, I can buy the M10 from Leica LA and have it shipped to me and save the 8.75% sales tax I would pay buying it at Leica Soho in NYC. Further, the math above is pretty much correct. I figured last night that I can buy the camera from Leicashop in Vienna (from whom I have purchased items before) and save nearly $1,500 after including the sales tax I would pay in NYC. The one catch is that sometimes, actually only happened to me once, US customs gets a hold of it and they hit me with a fee. Next trip Europe though . . . . . BTW, this is the reason why Leica has been running 20% off sales on US equipment for a while now -- to offset the gain from buying overseas. Reason why this coming summer, there are likely to be many more Yanks touring England than visa versa, the opposite of a few years ago when it seemed everyone in NYC was from Europe or Asia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted January 20, 2017 Share #11 Posted January 20, 2017 Reason why this coming summer, there are likely to be many more Yanks touring England than visa versa, the opposite of a few years ago when it seemed everyone in NYC was from Europe or Asia. At a $1.23 to our pound, you're going to need to bring additional empty suitcases! I don't know it's ever been that low an exchange rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollisd Posted January 20, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 20, 2017 Hypothetically speaking, how would an American living in Spain purchase a luxury item in the UK without paying tax? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted January 20, 2017 Share #13 Posted January 20, 2017 8300 USD in Russia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 20, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 20, 2017 Hypothetically speaking, how would an American living in Spain purchase a luxury item in the UK without paying tax? If you are a resident in Spain you have to pay VAT, one way or another. So all you need do is look at the retail prices of the M10 in both Spain and the UK and buy accordingly. The fact you are a US citizen should be irrelevant. However, if you are travelling to the UK and are an American Citizen, you could claim your VAT back... but you would need to have a US address and return to the US as you need to prove your exit to the country on your claim forms. Where you travelled to after that is up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted January 20, 2017 Hypothetically speaking, how would an American living in Spain purchase a luxury item in the UK without paying tax? Bill's answer is correct. The only way you could buy an M10 in the UK and avoid paying the VAT is to have it shipped out of the EU or buy it in the UK and reclaim the VAT at the airport on your way out of the EU (to Morocco, for example). Of course, when you bring it back in to the EU you are legally obliged to pay the VAT on the purchase price (even if you have thrown away the boxes and have it hanging around your neck). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamilmanafov Posted January 20, 2017 Share #16 Posted January 20, 2017 8300 USD in Russia That's why I wanted to buy it in UK, but dealers has 50+ people in a waiting list... That could take months to get one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted January 20, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 20, 2017 Unless my maths is off, the pricing of the M10 in the UK at £5,600 (£4,667 without VAT) puts it at quite a discount to the US list price ($6595 at B&H). The best part of a thousand dollars difference at current exchange rates. This has been the case with Leica gear for the last few years, at least, along with Zeiss and until recently, a number of Voigtlander items. It seems some markets are squeezed for money a bit more by either the manufacturer or the local distributor. Lately this includes the US whereas maybe a decade ago it seemed the US market always had the lowest prices. I too noticed the Japanese price for the M10... Apparently there's always a premium in Singapore, too (and wherever else that Leica distributor operates). US prices are listed w/o tax, Europe (UK included) inclusive of VAT -- state vs national system as stated above. In fact, I can buy the M10 from Leica LA and have it shipped to me and save the 8.75% sales tax I would pay buying it at Leica Soho in NYC. Further, the math above is pretty much correct. I figured last night that I can buy the camera from Leicashop in Vienna (from whom I have purchased items before) and save nearly $1,500 after including the sales tax I would pay in NYC. The one catch is that sometimes, actually only happened to me once, US customs gets a hold of it and they hit me with a fee. Next trip Europe though . . . . . BTW, this is the reason why Leica has been running 20% off sales on US equipment for a while now -- to offset the gain from buying overseas. I thought I read NY is one of the states that is more actively trying to crack down on those making out of state purchases in order to avoid payment of 'use tax'? Just be aware that if you travel to the EU and make your purchase there, when you claim the tax refund at the airport at the usual refund booths, you only get back about half of the actual tax amount (at least this was my experience on a number of trips). I don't know exactly why this is, but always assumed it was the refund operator taking the remainder of the refund as their cut for offering the service. There is a way to get the full VAT refunded. It involves having the tax refund paperwork supplied by the retailer stamped by a customs official at the airport (after you check in and have passed through passport control on the way to your gate). But it requires you physically leaving the EU first. Then on your return on a subsequent trip, you bring the stamped paperwork with you to the retailer and they will refund the full VAT amount. Alternatively, some retailers I've dealt with have offered to refund the VAT to a credit card if the paperwork is returned to them by mail. I've also had luck mailing the paperwork to a friend who then visited the store to process the full VAT refund. IMO, the best way to make the purchase with the least VAT hassle is to buy it online and have it shipped to you. You may have to deal with some additional import red tape due to the high value of the item, though this should be mitigated when sent via a courier's express service. At least with the US, it seems US customs only collects relevant duties, which there shouldn't be for cameras. They don't collect state sales taxes on imports. For those of us in Canada however, we all know that customs will collect the relevant GST/HST (VAT) for our province of residence. But this would be the same case when arriving home from a trip and declaring such purchases, as legally required. In any case, bottom line is that Leica gear remains more attractively priced in the EU if one can purchase it VAT-free. FWIW, the Japanese tax-free shopping experience is much better, with the full tax deducted at the time of purchase. However, given the high Leica prices in Japan, I wouldn't be making my purchases there. That said, some other brands (Zeiss, Voigtlander) have in the past been considerably less there than in the US market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 20, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 20, 2017 It's important to know that individual national/regional Leica agencies/subsidiaries (where they exist) have some input into their local pricing. It is not as though Leica Wetzlar sets one global retail price, which is simply adjusted for currencies. Obviously Leica USA cannot request or set dollar pricing that amounts to a loss per camera . But they can nudge the suggested retail dollar price a bit based on their local market knowledge - what dealers expect as markup, what the final customer market will bear, the US consumer habit of only reading the first two digits in a price ($6595 looks so much better than $6605 - ) etc. Probably in the range of $100 ± or thereabouts. For a new Leica M digital, with some tradeoffs in features (no video, but faster frame rate and thinner size, and maybe some IQ improvements), $6595 looks pretty good. The M240 debuted at $6950, the M9 at $6995 (of course, both the £ and € were more valuable in those times). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 20, 2017 Share #19 Posted January 20, 2017 I looks odd to me, that the price in the Netherlands is about € 6600,- , in Germany it is € 6500,- This is the first time, there is a slight price difference between the neighboring countries ( and inside the EU ). The price is maybe different because of the 21% /19% Netherlands / German VAT. But still... a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollisd Posted January 21, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 21, 2017 <snip>IMO, the best way to make the purchase with the least VAT hassle is to buy it online and have it shipped to you. You may have to deal with some additional import red tape due to the high value of the item, though this should be mitigated when sent via a courier's express service. At least with the US, it seems US customs only collects relevant duties, which there shouldn't be for cameras. They don't collect state sales taxes on imports. Anyone have any real world experience with this? I have heard that cameras are not subject to customs but why isn't everyone in the US just ordering the M10 from the UK there has to be a significant reason I'm leery of the UK flights scenario because you never get the full VAT refund someone always takes a chunk as commission. Or the aforementioned ways around this I would have to research well before trying this with boots on the ground. I'm intrigued by the online purchase mentioned above as this savings is the only way I can afford an M10 so I am very interested. Re: UK dealers who else to consider besides Red Dot Cameras? ps i like the expedited shipping strategy too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.